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Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1


2004-11-15 07:23:31 PM
cppbuilder62
Hi
That's a long trip to install K3 on newer distros. I send a rapport to
Borland and hope things will move :
qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/ number 9541 over Kylix3
problem
Please rate and vote on this post to grow his weight
Regards,
Lionel
 
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Lionel Reynaud wrote:
Quote
That's a long trip to install K3 on newer distros. I send a rapport
to Borland and hope things will move
That's unlikely at the moment. Kylix is almost a dead product. I don't
know if Borland has done any work on it since the last release.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Hi Andrue
"Andrue Cope [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >a écrit dans le message
de news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
Lionel Reynaud wrote:

>That's a long trip to install K3 on newer distros. I send a rapport
>to Borland and hope things will move

That's unlikely at the moment. Kylix is almost a dead product. I don't
know if Borland has done any work on it since the last release.

I can understand that a Kylix4 never come, but a minimum is to have a patch
for Kylix3 on newer distros (i am sure that for Borland it's require just a
few days). There are people who paid for Kylix !!
Lionel
 

{smallsort}

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Lionel Reynaud wrote:
Quote
There are people who paid for Kylix !!
But not very many of them apparently.
Borland is a business and there needs to be a business case for further
development. Kylix was apparently not a very big success and as far as
anyone outside of Borland knows is now dead.
BTW:You've actually posted your question to the wrong newsgroup
section. The .cppbuilder sections are for C++ Builder questions. Kylix
has its own sections (.kylix) and if you post there you will reach what
remains of its users and might get a more informative answer.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Borland is a business and there needs to be a business case for further
development. Kylix was apparently not a very big success and as far as
anyone outside of Borland knows is now dead.
That's exactly the reason why Borlands (and many others too) proprietary
Software will become obsolete in the future everybody who's got a brain
will use open source.
Cheers
Gunnar
---
www.bcbalternatives.de
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Quote
That's exactly the reason why Borlands (and many others too) proprietary
Software will become obsolete in the future everybody who's got a brain
will use open source.

The open source dev tools out there are really no match for delphi or
CPP Buiilder nor do i think they will be anytime soon. KDevelop is
about as good as it gets and that's nowhere near as productive as CPP
Builder.
Heck even the almost free tools stink. I bought WingIDE and Black adder
because I wanted to do some python development. I ended up going back
to UltraEdit and the command line.
Python combined with QT/wx and a db library could be a potent combo if a
real IDE would be release for it.
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Mike Margerum < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in news:419a4815$1
@newsgroups.borland.com:
Quote
The open source dev tools out there are really no match for delphi or
CPP Buiilder nor do i think they will be anytime soon. KDevelop is
about as good as it gets and that's nowhere near as productive as CPP
Builder.

Heck even the almost free tools stink. I bought WingIDE and Black
adder
because I wanted to do some python development. I ended up going back
to UltraEdit and the command line.

Python combined with QT/wx and a db library could be a potent combo if
a
real IDE would be release for it.

There are lots of good, free programming tools; there are lots of good,
proprietary programming tools. EMACS was doing the IDE thing before IDEs
were even cool (and reading mail besides!), and GCC has become the
Rosetta Stone compiler on just about every CPU architecture I can think
of. The reason the "soup to nuts" IDE concept never caught on much in the
Unix world is fairly simple: programmers had their own ideas of what
constituted "best in class". (Vi or EMACS, to radically oversimplify.)
The whole concept of "visual programming", which is mother's milk to
Windows folk, is pretty much an alien concept to Unix programmers. We are
used to the editor, the makefile, the toolchain. It seems just as
intuitive and simple to us as your clicky-GUI doohickeys do to you, and
it's far more portable.
Old fashioned? I guess so. But it seems natural to us.
mr_organic
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Quote
Unix world is fairly simple: programmers had their own ideas of what
constituted "best in class". (Vi or EMACS, to radically oversimplify.)

More of a lack of choice. I've used emacs for 15 years and while it's a
capable editor, it's hardly a replacement for a real IDE. KDevelop is
coming along nicely but it ain't delphi.
Quote
The whole concept of "visual programming", which is mother's milk to
Windows folk, is pretty much an alien concept to Unix programmers. We are
used to the editor, the makefile, the toolchain. It seems just as
intuitive and simple to us as your clicky-GUI doohickeys do to you, and
it's far more portable.

this "Mother's milk" is pretty much the reason why windows owns and will
continue to own the desktop and a big chunk of the server markets. VB
is the most popular programming language on the planet. It might suck
architecturally, but you can develop very quickly in it.
I'm a C++ programmer by trade but for database apps, I use delphi. Why
would I want to code all this dataset {*word*99} by hand in C++ when I can
build it in days in delphi instead of weeks/months?
If ECOII can do what I think it can do, I might be buying delphi ARCH to
build some other types of apps. I'm tired of coding everything by hand.
I've done is 1,000 times before. I want to go downstairs and play
with my kid.
Quote
Old fashioned? I guess so. But it seems natural to us.

i'm one of "us". I have built linux apps in c++ and python.
There's nothing noble in spending 10x as much time as you need to on a
project just to stay "pure"
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

"Mike Margerum" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:419a75e1$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
i'm one of "us". I have built linux apps in c++ and python.
There's nothing noble in spending 10x as much time as you need to on a
project just to stay "pure"
I agree with everything except maybe the delphi part <g>
I've written more make files that I want to remember and if
I never write another one I'll be happy. Though I don't imagine
that I'll be happy very soon as we're getting into more cross platform
stuff these days.
A good IDE for Linux would not make my Linux code any less
professional. Just less costly to develop.
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Delphi is very very good at stock 2 tier C/S apps. For just about
anything else, C++ is better. I'm intrigued by ECO but it seems like
one of those deals where it might do 90% of what you want to do really
easy and then you kill yourself doing the last 10%.
I hope borland continues to invest in C++ Builder and X. I'd really
like to see a pure C++ VCL.
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Gunnar Beushausen wrote:
Quote
They wouldn't did so if their own products (like VCL) were
better.
I think it was because VCL is based on the WinAPI (and Delphi language).
And the CLX is based on a too old version of Qt. Using wxWidgets was a
step to get support from the community who is bugfixing wxWidgets and to
be able to compile applications without "any" changes under different
platforms what VCL can't do.
--
Regards,
Andreas Hausladen
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Hi Mike!
I was talking about the future, not the presence. If you look back at the
Linux Desktops three years ago, comparing it to the Windows one, it was
almost unusable. Nowadays it's almost better (like tabbed browsing within
the file manager and so on). And like you see, Microsoft has a really hard
time to catch on this.
The same thing is going to happen with Linux IDEs. The next version of
KDevelop is going to have a RAD Forms Designer integrated. And remember,
even Borland was considering of using the open source wxWidgets as a
foundation of it's CBuilderX GUI system. They wouldn't did so if their own
products (like VCL) were better.
P.S.: This reminds me back of 1998 when i was talking here that we need a
Linux version of BCB and everybody said that Linux would never become a
market big enough to do that. Some years later, we had three different
Kylix versions comming out... So i know what i'm talking about :-)
Software developers can't risk loosing their work and money just because
their IDE vendor stops their Software just because it's only returning 5x
the investment instead of 10x. So in the future, when open source IDEs will
become good enough, everybody _will_ stick to it and won't be using
commercial software any more. Its just too risky, like any BCB user knows.
Cheers
Gunnar
Mike Margerum wrote:
Quote
The open source dev tools out there are really no match for delphi or
CPP Buiilder nor do i think they will be anytime soon. KDevelop is
about as good as it gets and that's nowhere near as productive as CPP
Builder.

Heck even the almost free tools stink. I bought WingIDE and Black adder
because I wanted to do some python development. I ended up going back
to UltraEdit and the command line.

Python combined with QT/wx and a db library could be a potent combo if a
real IDE would be release for it.
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Mike Margerum wrote:
Quote
Heck even the almost free tools stink. I bought WingIDE and Black
adder because I wanted to do some python development. I ended up
going back to UltraEdit and the command line.
I can't claim to an extensive use of free software but I installed Open
Office at home a couple of weeks ago and will be getting rid of it when
I have the time. It's compatibility with MS Office is poor, the
spreadsheet part is missing several features, it takes half a minute to
load (on a P4 3.4 with 7,200 rmp disk and 1GB of RAM) and the Word
processor seems a little unstable.
It basically feels like what it is:Free software.
I've ordered a copy of Office 2K instead.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
I can't claim to an extensive use of free software but I installed Open
Office at home a couple of weeks ago and will be getting rid of it when
I have the time. It's compatibility with MS Office is poor, the
spreadsheet part is missing several features, it takes half a minute to
load (on a P4 3.4 with 7,200 rmp disk and 1GB of RAM) and the Word
processor seems a little unstable.

It basically feels like what it is:Free software.
I know companies with several hundrets employees using OO on a regular
basis. Except MS macros it's compatibility is somting like 99,9%. It's not
unstable and MSOffice get loaded faster, because it's dlls got installed
into the OS and therefore gets preloaded when you start Windows. Thats why
Windows starts slowlier after you install MSOffice. You can tell OO to do
the same thing too and therefore incredibly increase startup time (while
decreasing boot time).
Quote
It basically feels like what it is:Free software.
Plain silly. OO is just a free version of Suns StarOffice wich is commercial
like MS Office too.
Cheers
Gunnar
 

Re:Install Kylix3 on Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.1

Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
>Heck even the almost free tools stink. I bought WingIDE and Black
>adder because I wanted to do some python development. I ended up
>going back to UltraEdit and the command line.

I can't claim to an extensive use of free software but I installed Open
Office at home a couple of weeks ago and will be getting rid of it when
I have the time. It's compatibility with MS Office is poor, the
spreadsheet part is missing several features, it takes half a minute to
load (on a P4 3.4 with 7,200 rmp disk and 1GB of RAM) and the Word
processor seems a little unstable.
I'm hitting the point where I have to stick with Lotus or switch, but I
have not had any problems with OpenOffice on Windows or LINUX -
something that Office will never help with.
Quote
It basically feels like what it is:Free software.
Not having any niggles with Office at all?
I keep getting phonecalls to sort them out - even though my customers
know I don't even have Office installed :)
Quote
I've ordered a copy of Office 2K instead.
I've 8 copies of Lotus - some how I don't think I'll be going down the
Office route just yet ;)
--
Lester Caine
-----------------------------
L.S.Caine Electronic Services