Board index » cppbuilder » Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

Re: Winking in the dark, almost.


2005-01-18 04:57:31 AM
cppbuilder19
Simon D wrote:
Quote
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:xn0dxdd5m49r8rg00urudys-toshiba@www.teamb.com...

>>......to those who read these groups. Which comes back to my
>>question, would you know otherwise?
>
>Yes, if you read BDN, or read the magazines in which it was
>mentioned.

Thanks Rudy. Most helpful. You turned a question of whether anyone
would know, into whether they should even be informed.
Huh?
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow." -- unknown
 
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

"Hendrik Schober" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
>[...]
>If people are being informed too early, they get eager, and start
>asking questions, while Borland can't say anything useful yet. I guess
>Borland wants to avoid that. [...]


For crying out loud! What the heck is
so bad about that? In fact, customers
getting eager should be exactly what
marketing should be after, right now!
Nothing bad really. That's what MS is doing to keep their customers informed
and interested. Don't remember anybody really complained about that, even
though the plans were revised many times.
This is looking sillier and sillier. First, there were references to some
legal hurdles in releasing even basic information; - give me a break. Then
everybody was waiting for an open letter, which didn't provide much
information other than usual platitudes. Now we are to believe that
everything we needed to know we were already told, and the company's new
super-duper marketing technique is to keep their customers guessing. That's
very smart, I'm sure Borland will have a great success with this approach.
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Simon D wrote:

>"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>news:xn0dxdd5m49r8rg00urudys-toshiba@www.teamb.com...
>
>>>......to those who read these groups. Which comes back to my
>>>question, would you know otherwise?
>>
>>Yes, if you read BDN, or read the magazines in which it was
>>mentioned.
>
>Thanks Rudy. Most helpful. You turned a question of whether anyone
>would know, into whether they should even be informed.

Huh?
Lots of chat about Borland's marketing machine and it's infinite wisdom, but
not one answer to the original question! I'm as much in the dark as the
winkers at Borland (pun intended).
Simon.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
...
Quote
Borland is becoming more
and more open, and I'm sure they will inform people about the new C++
product as soon as there is something worthwhile to report.
Rudy, have you been working for some communist regime in the past? Your
answers remind so much their typical propaganda techniques. Just substitute
"Borland" with the Soviet Union and "C++ products" with "nuclear weapons"
and you get a worthy answer from some communist official.
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Hey, at least it was not a pretzel. <g>

When pretzels attack, nations laugh <g>
.a
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
>but not one answer to the original question! I'm as much in
>the dark as the winkers at Borland (pun intended).

And that was quite unnecessary.
Maybe, but it made me smile.
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

J Alexander wrote:
Quote
>Borland is becoming more
>and more open, and I'm sure they will inform people about the new
>C++ product as soon as there is something worthwhile to report.

Rudy, have you been working for some communist regime in the past?
Are you trying to be insulting, or did that serve another purpose?
Quote
Your answers remind so much their typical propaganda techniques.
What the heck are you talking about? Borland have said what there is to
be said, and if they don't have anything to say, they don't say
anything. I thik that any other information policy would be nonsense. I
am not spreading any propaganda. And that is exactly what Borland is
trying to avoid as well.
If you'd have followed all the information we hae been given about
Diamondback (the code name for Delphi 2005), you would not be saying
this. Borland has always had a policy of not informing people until
(very) shortly before a release. But this changed considerably for
Diamondback. This not not propaganda from my side, it is exactly what
we have been asking for, for years.
If you don't believe me, ask anyone who reads the Delphi newsgroups, or
reads the Borland blogs, or was present at the Diamondbakc
presentations at Borcon, etc. Actually, the video recently released
(about C++Builder in the new IDE) is another sign of this.
But now, if I tell about it, I am accused of communist style propaganda?
I can understand that you are eager to hear more, but it is nonsense to
relieve your frustration about a lack of information by insulting
people like me, because I simply tell you how it is.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"
-- Groucho Marx
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

In article <41ec2e33$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,
"J Alexander" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Rudy, have you been working for some communist regime in the past? Your
answers remind so much their typical propaganda techniques. Just substitute
"Borland" with the Soviet Union and "C++ products" with "nuclear weapons"
and you get a worthy answer from some communist official.
Thats the second time I've seen Rudy compared to a communist in the
last month. What's going on?
(Followups set to bpot)
--
-David
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:xn0dxd4x33yp13p00crudys-toshiba@www.teamb.com...
Quote
Yes, I do know something, and it is not a secret: the company policy
WRT secrecy and information has changed a lot. Borland is becoming more
and more open, and I'm sure they will inform people about the new C++
product as soon as there is something worthwhile to report.
So I guess you mean that there are no current plans for CBX, only the new
C++ product which, I assume, means some version of BCB/VCL
wrapped into the Delphi package at some point.
As for the secrecy and lack of information in the past, Borland may
have changed their policy but I still don't have much in the way
of information <g>They must have some idea if they plan to
upgrade CBX and when the plan to roll it out or to roll out
BCB.
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

Duane Hebert wrote:
Quote

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:xn0dxd4x33yp13p00crudys-toshiba@www.teamb.com...

>Yes, I do know something, and it is not a secret: the company policy
>WRT secrecy and information has changed a lot. Borland is becoming
>more and more open, and I'm sure they will inform people about the
>new C++ product as soon as there is something worthwhile to report.

So I guess you mean that there are no current plans for CBX, only the
new C++ product which, I assume, means some version of BCB/VCL
wrapped into the Delphi package at some point.
I mean what I said, no more, no less: at the moment, there is nothing
new to report. It doesn't make sense to read anything more into what
I'm saying.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible."
- Walt Disney (1901-1966)
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Hendrik Schober wrote:

>Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
>>Hendrik Schober wrote:
>>
>>>That Borland is planning to release a
>>>C++ RAD IDE is "worthwile to report".
>>>(Actually it's screaming news.)
>>
>>They did. On BDN. And it was written in a few articles in magazines.
>
>Then why were you arguing that it
>would be no good if they did?

I am merely aguing that currently, there is nothing new to be said,
Then you obviously missed the point
of this thread. Go back and read the
OP. He wasn't crying for more news.
He asked why what had already been
announced to what Borland (JohnK,
that is) and TeamB in these groups
repeatedly accused of being only a
minority of the BCB customers isn't
announced somewhere else, so that
what has been called the majority
could pick up the news.
And there he's made a /very/ valid
point. There's no need trying to
spoil that by arguing in circles.
Quote
[...]
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Hendrik Schober wrote:

>Say, are you maybe trying to troll me?

LOL! Would be a bit funny if I were trolling on Borland's server, don't
you think?
No, not at all. This attitude is
getting on my nerves, actually.
Quote
>Otherwise, read the OP and your response to it. And please stop this
>arguing in circles. That's silly.

You lost me, sorry. I have no idea what the problem is.
Then go back in the thread and eventually
read it!
Simon asked why, what has been said to the
minority here, hasn't been told to the
majority outside. To which you responded
that it isn't the time to do that yet and
that it would just make the customers eager.
To which I responded that this would be a
good thing. To which you asnwered that
everything is known to everybody already.
And the only answer to this would be that
it isn't. -- Which is exactly Simon's
original point. So after a waste of time,
bandwidth, and nerves, hopefully we're
finally through this stupid meta-discussion
and can come back to Simon's very valid
point:
The community here has repeatedly been
called a minority of the BCB customers. So
why hasn't Borland announced to the majority
what has been said here -- that BCB is to be
coming back within BDS?
Oh, and /if/ you want to answer to this,
please don't do this here, but as an answer
to Simon's posting. This is a much too
important question to get burried under
such a stupid meta-discussion.
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

Hendrik Schober wrote:
Quote
>LOL! Would be a bit funny if I were trolling on Borland's server,
>don't you think?

No, not at all. This attitude is
getting on my nerves, actually.
What attitude do you mean, exactly?
Quote
Simon asked why, what has been said to the
minority here, hasn't been told to the
majority outside.
But AFAICS, it has been told to the majority outside the groups.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"Woman was God's second mistake."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Hendrik Schober wrote:

>>LOL! Would be a bit funny if I were trolling on Borland's server,
>>don't you think?
>
>No, not at all. This attitude is
>getting on my nerves, actually.

What attitude do you mean, exactly?
Arguing in circles, which leads to
useless meta-discussions like this
one.
Quote
>Simon asked why, what has been said to the
>minority here, hasn't been told to the
>majority outside.

But AFAICS, it has been told to the majority outside the groups.
So why, in your first postings to
this thread, did you defend that it
was not published, when now you say
it was? /This/ attitude is annoying
me.
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett
 

Re:Re: Winking in the dark, almost.

Hendrik Schober wrote:
Quote
Arguing in circles, which leads to
useless meta-discussions like this
one.
I don't think I'm arguing in circles.
Quote
So why, in your first postings to
this thread, did you defend that it
was not published, when now you say
it was?
I simply said that NOW, after all has been said a few months ago, there
is nothing new to report anymore. Mailing anyone about the new BCB
personality would be rather preliminary, since there is nothing to sell
yet.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"RAM /abr./: Rarely Adequate Memory." -- From the Jargon File