Board index » cppbuilder » Re: Abandon Ship?

Re: Abandon Ship?


2003-09-18 05:58:52 AM
cppbuilder34
If you have the authority and the know, I can't think of ANY reason you
would wait for a "prepared document". Especially when a simple answer would
at least lay people's fears to bed (or raise them depending on what the
answer to CB + VCL's future is).
Borland doesn't have a good track record with the C++ community and I can't
believe it would alienate its biggest supporters (cheerleaders). The longer
you say NOTHING, the bigger this issue will come.
Regards,
Shane
"John Kaster (Borland)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Shane Stump wrote:

>You are echoing my thoughts. If Borland doesn't answer our concerns (are
you
>listening John??

Yes, I've noticed that you and some others are extremely alarmed.

>IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY,

It's got nothing to do with authority. I'm aware of the concerns here.
Right now, the team is focused on finishing up other localized versions
of the product. While it would be nice if they could participate on the
newsgroup or provide information that would help keep people here from
working themselves into a frenzy, their priority is to ship the product.

More information will be forthcoming as soon as they produce the
documents. Please remain calm.


--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
$1280/$50K: homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish: qc.borland.com * Get source
codecentral.borland.com

 
 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

I am one of them. My clients don't know what a "Borland" is, but they do
know what a Microsoft is. I really don't want to explain to them why we are
got "Borlanded".
Regards,
Shane
"David Ray" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
>Yes, I've noticed that you and some others are extremely alarmed.

>working themselves into a frenzy

John,

With all due respect, you should remember that for some of us there are
major financial consequences involved; sometimes involving hundreds of
thousands of dollars or, and worse, several years' work. Our lives are
affected in a major way should Borland decide to abandon BCB as a
platform,
or at least some reasonable C++ support for VCL.

Until we know with a degree of certainty this isn't what's happening, I
think a little "frenzy" and "alarm" are reasonable reactions to what's
going
on, at least for some subset of us.

D Ray



 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

Shane Stump wrote:
Quote
If you have the authority and the know, I can't think of ANY reason you
would wait for a "prepared document". Especially when a simple answer would
at least lay people's fears to bed (or raise them depending on what the
answer to CB + VCL's future is).

Borland doesn't have a good track record with the C++ community and I can't
believe it would alienate its biggest supporters (cheerleaders). The longer
you say NOTHING, the bigger this issue will come.

Regards,

Shane

Borland are preparing an exhaustive survey to figure out what approach
the majority of the current BCB/VCL developers prefer.
Also, they are planning to present more of their roadmap in the nearest
future.
.a
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Borland are preparing an exhaustive survey to figure out what approach
the majority of the current BCB/VCL developers prefer.
Is this a joke? If so, it's not very funny given the current
situation. If not, you must be kidding. The time to have done such
research (and done the development, frankly) is PRIOR to the release of
a product such as CBX. Note I didn't say the announcement of the
product, but the release.
Quote

Also, they are planning to present more of their roadmap in the
nearest future.
Again, the longer they wait, the worse it looks. And, again, if this
kind of response wasn't both anticipated and planned for, it makes
Borland management look so completely out of touch with their customers
that it isn't funny.
David Erbas-White
Quote

.a

 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

It would have been SMART of them to do that BEFORE/SIMULTANEOUSLY with the
announcement of CB X.
Regards,
Shane
"Alex Bakaev [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Shane Stump wrote:

>If you have the authority and the know, I can't think of ANY reason you
>would wait for a "prepared document". Especially when a simple answer
would
>at least lay people's fears to bed (or raise them depending on what the
>answer to CB + VCL's future is).
>
>Borland doesn't have a good track record with the C++ community and I
can't
>believe it would alienate its biggest supporters (cheerleaders). The
longer
>you say NOTHING, the bigger this issue will come.
>
>Regards,
>
>Shane
>


Borland are preparing an exhaustive survey to figure out what approach
the majority of the current BCB/VCL developers prefer.

Also, they are planning to present more of their roadmap in the nearest
future.

.a

 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

In article <3f68dc68$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...
Quote
Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote:

>Borland are preparing an exhaustive survey to figure out what approach
>the majority of the current BCB/VCL developers prefer.


Is this a joke? If so, it's not very funny given the current
situation. If not, you must be kidding. The time to have done such
research (and done the development, frankly) is PRIOR to the release of
a product such as CBX. Note I didn't say the announcement of the
product, but the release.
[snip]
David Erbas-White
David, I agree with you completely! And, Borland appears to have left the
TeamB guys to take the heat.
Neil
 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

Shane Stump wrote:
Quote
It would have been SMART of them to do that BEFORE/SIMULTANEOUSLY with the
announcement of CB X.

Regards,

Shane

Maybe they were doing that before, just didn't get it done in time?
.a
 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

David Erbas-White wrote:
Quote
Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote:

>Borland are preparing an exhaustive survey to figure out what approach
>the majority of the current BCB/VCL developers prefer.



Is this a joke? If so, it's not very funny given the current
situation. If not, you must be kidding. The time to have done such
research (and done the development, frankly) is PRIOR to the release of
a product such as CBX. Note I didn't say the announcement of the
product, but the release.

Not everything can be made fit into a certain timeframe. I agree totally
that it would've been the best had they done this earlier. At the same
time, them being smaller players, they can't tip their hand too early.
Quote
>
>Also, they are planning to present more of their roadmap in the
>nearest future.



Again, the longer they wait, the worse it looks. And, again, if this
kind of response wasn't both anticipated and planned for, it makes
Borland management look so completely out of touch with their customers
that it isn't funny.

It's not that they are waiting intentionally. As for the response, it's
a bit premature, as Borland hasn't given its final word yet. So, it's
safe to assume they are planning and anticipating.
.a
 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

Quite possibly
But then I've made sure that people who might have wanted to
get BCB didn't get it especially after explaining my reasoning.
So in the end yes it has impacted on their bottom line.
--
This space for sale...
"David B. Held" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
"Eamonn Wallace" <twilightzone>wrote in message
news:3f688308$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>I left after the turkey that was BCB5, smelling a total
>disinterest in the BCB platform.

Good or bad, I suspect Borland didn't notice your exit on its
bottom line.

Dave


 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

Good question. At the moment my main app heavily relies on the VCL and the
database tools Borland provide.
I'm not sure about .Net but say I would choose to use Delphi(which most
people consider the star product for Borland) it would be much easier to
then move to Delphi for .Net if it would happen to be that there will be no
further win32 Delphi version that fully supports the VCL, than fully
re-writing the app to BCBx.
IMHO, At the moment it's too early to say what do to. Perhaps I will
consider maintaining existing products with C++Builder6(though that would be
a last resort, time is really short of these days so time will perhaps
dictate the path) and write new ones with BCBx , Delphi or some other IDE.
Quote
Except if you remember, Delphi doesn't support BCB, BCB supports Delphi.
So if you had to move to Delphi from BCB, you would have to rewrite all of
your code.
much easier and faster than re-writing it using Microsoft's products or
using BCBx. Anyhow 99% of all VCL component out there are written in Delphi.
Quote
So, it you have to rewrite all of your code, why would you make the same
mistake and choose another Borland product.
Would you be that stupid?

Not me...
Well, then would you like I write my own compiler and IDE? then I will
totally rely on myself(not counting the OS of course) with no worries ;-)
Borland seems like a stable company they haven't treated us that bad, I
don't see why I should switch to Microsoft, Intel or Metrowerks.
All in all, just to early to make any concrete decisions. We'l see what
happens over the next few months.
 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

David Ray wrote:
Quote
With all due respect,
David, with all due respect, the initial information became public this
Monday.
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
$1280/$50K: homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish: qc.borland.com * Get source
codecentral.borland.com
 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

John,
The initial information included information about a new (at
least for Borland) GUI framework and designer and made no mention of the existing VCL framework. That's a loud message don't you think? I mean, it must have occurred to you all in advance that it would be seen as a message of sorts. You can't be that oblivious to your customers. It'd have to have occurred to you.
Speaking as someone who writes development tools for a rather
different market (involving embedded hardware development for
specialized signal processing applicatios) if I came out new a
new app that, say, didn't support some API set that we have
supported for years (and we have callable APIs in our product to
automate processing of data that gets collected from embedded
hardware that is tested and our APIs do graphics, analyses,
manipulate datasets, etc) and if we refused to say anything
about it our customers would be enraged. They'd be fuming. I'd
hate to take the phone calls that'd come in from everyone from
lower level developers to second and third level managers at
customer sites. I never would write a press release that seemed
to be blowing off their commitment to our interfaces.
Borland's excuse that it is too busy at the moment to take the
time to comment is absurd. Vague reassurances of the sort you've
offered are inexcusable. If the answer to the VCL forms designer
for BCBX question is NO then say so. If YES then say so. If its
"we haven't made up our minds yet" then say so. It is that simple really. It would take very little time to say. Though of course the management of the reaction would take more time if the answer is NO or MAYBE. But, hey, if that is what you are doing then Borland is doing you are going to have deal with it.
"John Kaster (Borland)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
David Ray wrote:
>With all due respect,

David, with all due respect, the initial information became public this
Monday.


--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
$1280/$50K: homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish: qc.borland.com * Get source
codecentral.borland.com

 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote:
Quote

Not everything can be made fit into a certain timeframe. I agree totally
that it would've been the best had they done this earlier. At the same
time, them being smaller players, they can't tip their hand too early.
Why? Because Microsft might have brought out a product similar to
BCBX? Not freakin' likely - I don't think they're all that
interested in the cross-platform thing and IBM already has eclipse :)
regards,
jeff
 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

Hi folks :)
Quote
>So, it you have to rewrite all of your code, why would you make the same
>mistake and choose another Borland product.
>Would you be that stupid?
>
>Not me...
Well, then would you like I write my own compiler and IDE? then I will
totally rely on myself(not counting the OS of course) with no worries ;-)
Borland seems like a stable company they haven't treated us that bad, I
don't see why I should switch to Microsoft, Intel or Metrowerks.
Perhaps I should've left Intel and Metroweks out of the picture since I
don't have enough experience deeling with those companies so...
Ok I'm not totally satisfied with how Borland treats us but how much
different do you thing it would be with the others? Before the annoucement
of BCBx I prefered them over the rest and I still do know but somewhat less.
I mean they do what's best in their interest like do other companies. I
still know some folks that use OWL so they most likely have felt the same I
as will if there will be no more VCL support.
Of course it's sad for many of the C++Builder users who rely so heavily on
the VCL and put years into developing a great application, yes they could
re-code it but it takes a lot of willpower and time that you spend away from
your family and friends or you can continue to develop it using a tool that
you know will not grow with the market and get any fixes, I have a list of
all the C++Builder bugs I encountered myself and so have others(most are one
of top rated on QC), those problems are not yet fixed and are really
annoying and it would be nice for some nice feature addons for the IDE as
well.
Anyhow, I still think it's too early to make any judgments.
 

Re:Re: Abandon Ship?

Quote
I'm not sure about .Net but say I would choose to use Delphi(which most
people consider the star product for Borland) it would be much easier to
Though for me, Delphi is indeed Borland's "star" product, I thought
that the general consensus was that JBuilder was their best product.