Board index » cppbuilder » Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Re: Hold onto your hats!!


2003-09-18 01:29:39 AM
cppbuilder13
M wrote:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:


>To me it looks more as if they looked at the portability issue. Hard
>to do with a Delphi based framework. Much easier with one written in a
>standardised language that is available on many platforms.

What? Perl? Python? Ruby? You sure aren't suggesting I get rid of
'portability issues' when using C++ ?
Huh? AFAIK, C++ is often chosen for its portability, isn't it?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"It is now possible for a flight attendant to get a pilot pregnant."
- Richard J. Ferris, president of United Airlines
 
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Leroy Casterline wrote:
Quote
Let me try again.

David said "it doesn't 'appear' that the VCL is much of a priority in
D8"

You said: "Updating the VCL to .NET is quite an enhancement"
And a priority as well.
Quote
Contrast that with the shabby treatment given to BCB developers. Can you
understand why I and at least a few others are upset?
Yes. I understand that many people chose C++Builder because of the VCL.
But I'm not sure if C++BuilderX is currently meant for them.
Quote
Yes, there has been a clamor for a C++ VCL. Abandoning the VCL hardly
fulfills that desire.
AFAIK, Borland has never said whether it will continue providing a C++
framework like the VCL. I'm pretty sure that if the framework is pure
C++, it can't be completely like the VCL.
And doing .NET stuff is not really in which I would use C++.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Well-timed silence hath more eloquence than speech."
- Martin Fraquhar Tupper
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

David Erbas-White wrote:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

>Edward Diener wrote:
>
>>
>>Then why price this "preview" version so outlandishly.
>>>>
>
>It is a full version that comes with previews of things to come, like
>the form designer for wxWindows and the new compiler, AFAIK.
>
>Since it is not exactly the successor to BCB6, it was not named
>C++Builder 7, I guess.
>

Yes, they skipped C++Builder VII, C++ Builder VIII, C++ Builder IX, and
went straight to C++ Builder X! <G>
That came to my mind as well, but I'm not sure that is the meaning of the
X. I guess X stands for X-platform.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"1001 words say more than one picture" -- Chinese proverb
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

"Peter Agricola" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
So my native Win32 app will call a API. This API calls a .NET function.
This function calls an (same-named old) API to actually let happen
something?
That depends on what you are referring to by "same-named old API". My take
is that .NET will be the actual implementation, not that it will call into
something else even lower down. But then, I know nothing about how .NET
actually works, so I'm just speculation. All I heard what that Win32 was
being re-written to use .NET internally, and for performance purposes new
apps once Longhorn is released should be written in .NET directly, since
Win32 will be deprecated to a compatibility layer for backwards support.
Gambit
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Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

M wrote:
Quote
If you bother to read what people write about not having VCL (and being
a very expensive preview) you should have come to the conclusion that
"everyone else" is highly improbable.
I see people complaining. It is well known that people having complaints
are much more vocal than people who are happy. So the fact that many
complain doesn't necessarily mean that not many others actually like the
product, and are waiting to get their hands on it.
Quote
Maybe you want to read the
reception it got on slashdot? Cold...
I don't read slashdot very often. I am not very interested in the meaning
of slashdot either. Time will tell how this works out.
Quote
Of course, I don't get paid for reciting the company line...
Neither do I. I am a member of TeamB, I am an independent dentist, and I
don't get money from Borland for what I do. TeamB members are not (can't
be) Borland employees.
www.teamb.com
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"The gods too are fond of a joke."
- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Andrue Cope < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Perhaps the lesson to learn is that they should.
I think they're trying to drive home a lesson to us, a lesson they've
been trying to teach us for several years now by ignoring our requests
that bugs be fixed and features be made to work as advertised.
Quote
We now have uncertainty over the support/provision of something that is
crucial to a lot of our jobs.
Exactly correct.
Quote
I expect Borland /will/ provide VCL support
This is not the impression I've gotten from my participation in the
field test newsgroups. One of the reasons given for not supporting the
VCL was that the new compiler did not support the required extensions. I
don't recall if this statement came from a TeamB member or a Borlander,
but I believe it was from one or the other. A Borlander stated that
there were no plans to support visual tools for the VCL.
As you, I and others are pointed out, Borland should not be silent on
this issue. I believe that the OWE us this much (and more).
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
>Of course, I don't get paid for reciting the company line...
>
You don't get paid to troll either, right?
Hmmm... There was a recent troll attack on the Delphi non-tech group
again. One person impersonating two, or perhaps even three.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"A friendship founded on business is better than a business founded on
friendship."
- John D. Rockefeller (1874-1960)
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Harold Howe [TeamB] wrote:
Quote

>I'm optimistic that CBX/wxWindows will succeed ... But until then
>there has to be a path for BCB users, other than: do 180 degree turn,
>go back 5 years, restart.

I agree. If Borland completely abandons existing VCL customers by
providing no upgrade path, legacy support, or migration tools, then
they will be shooting themselves in the foot by screwing over the only
people that stuck with them.
No doubt. But let's hope they will not do that. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible."
- Walt Disney (1901-1966)
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Edward Diener wrote:
Quote
Since wxWindows has decided to cater to as
many C++ compilers as possible, it has eliminated nearly all modern C++
idioms and doesn't even use the C++ standard library, std::string, STL
containers, smart pointers in its interfaces.
Neither does the VCL. <vbg>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare.
Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
-- Robert Wilensky
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Andrue Cope wrote:
Quote
I think CBX is a great product - the problem is that it currently
excludes a major part of the community.
Yes, but I'm pretty sure that this is not the final product. So before
people judge, they should perhaps wait until they see the final product.
Borland are damned if they hold it back, although many people (not
necessarily the current user base!) might benefit from it already, and
they are damned if they release it, since people will voice the
complaints they voice now.
I understand the complaints, and if Delphi 8 all of a sudden would be
released without form designer, etc., I think the howling would be a
multiple of what is going on in here. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"While we are postponing, life speeds by."
- Seneca (3BC - 65AD)
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Chris Hill wrote:
Quote
MS will not stop supporting Win32 in the near future, hopefully
Borland won't either.
So that is why all their development products have been moved to .NET?
How old are their Win32 development products?
I guess they will put Win32 in maintenance mode, and only provide new
APIs on the .NET platform. I vaguely remember having seen a Microsoft
statement that actually said that.
But we are getting off-topic in this C++ group. We could continue this in
borland.public.delphi.netpreview.non-technical, or in
borland.public.csharpbuilder.non-technical.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure
is an inconvenience rightly considered."
- Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936)
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Yes. I understand that many people chose C++Builder because of the VCL.
But I'm not sure if C++BuilderX is currently meant for them.
Since there is no BCB 7, and there never will be, doesn't that
constitute abandonment?
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

I think he meant that Borland was practicing Proctology without a
license (or, given their technique, any training).
XXXX@XXXXX.COM wrote:
Quote
CBX gave you hemorrhoids?
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote:


>>Of course, I don't get paid for reciting the company line...
>>
>
>You don't get paid to troll either, right?


Hmmm... There was a recent troll attack on the Delphi non-tech group
again. One person impersonating two, or perhaps even three.
9 out of the 7 voices in my head say I'm just one person (that does not
exclude multiple personalities tho).
 

Re:Re: Hold onto your hats!!

Why? I held my tongue until the product was announced.
"Adam Versteegen" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Leroy Casterline wrote:

>This is not the impression I've gotten from my participation in the
>field test newsgroups.

You shouldn't actually be making comments regarding your participation....