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Re: Sad


2004-05-24 07:50:52 PM
cppbuilder19
At 01:24:51, 24.05.2004, Zambhala wrote:
Quote

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
>I think you missed a bit of news, lately.

Kylix, C#Builder, CBuilderX - all Borland managed to
bring out in the last few years has been a string of
promising but ill-conceived and half-baked products that
were left to rot right after release.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I don't share it.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools.
Let's start with typewriters."
-- Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)
 
 

Re:Re: Sad

At 03:37:46, 24.05.2004, OBones wrote:
Quote
Zambhala wrote:

>Now if they were to offload the development and support load
>with some some sort of innovative open-source scheme, at
>least there would be a ray of hope. But it looks like
>the quality of their executives is dismal and unimaginative.

A while ago, I proposed that a select few were given access to the BCB
source code to do the most urgent fixes.
I doubt Borland would do that. I personally wouldn't. But I hope you did
read Anders' and other people's blogs and messages here, lately?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty."
-- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
 

Re:Re: Sad

"Rudy Velthuis wrote:
Quote
You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I don't share it.
But it _seems_ he is right. And Borland isn't trying very hard to change
that opinion. On the contrary. Of course Borland are entitled to remain
silent. But on this opinion people are making decisions. To wich they are
entitled too of course.
Peter
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Sad

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" wrote:
Quote

At 01:24:51, 24.05.2004, Zambhala wrote:

>
>"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
>>I think you missed a bit of news, lately.
>
>Kylix, C#Builder, CBuilderX - all Borland managed to
>bring out in the last few years has been a string of
>promising but ill-conceived and half-baked products that
>were left to rot right after release.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I don't share it.
Actually his "opinion" isn't backed by facts. Kylix got 3 revisions and is now
in limbo yes. C#B was released 11 months ago and is hinted at its next revision
will be around D9 time. CBX just got a 1.5 release a few months ago. So at
least 2 of the three are still active, the third was active for over 3 years,
but didn't catch on and the resources are now going towards items that do
generate a better return.
--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
(Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build
a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act
alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for
insects. (RAH)
 

Re:Re: Sad

"Jeff Overcash (TeamB)" wrote:
Quote
Actually his "opinion" isn't backed by facts. Kylix got 3 revisions and
is now
in limbo yes.
Is this already official?
Quote
C#B was released 11 months ago and is hinted at its next revision
will be around D9 time.
Just like there is a C++ open letter hinted (more than once)...
Quote
CBX just got a 1.5 release a few months ago.
No. CBX Mobile Edition (wich is a separate product) got a 1.5 release, not
CBX. In that action CBX Mobile Edition is renamed to just CBX, promissing
not much for the original CBX, wich got one patch, but nobody knows what is
repaired.
Quote
So at least 2 of the three are still active, the third was active for
over 3 years,
but didn't catch on and the resources are now going towards items that do
generate a better return.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I don't share it. ;-)
Peter
 

Re:Re: Sad

Peter Agricola wrote:
Quote

No. CBX Mobile Edition (wich is a separate product) got a 1.5 release, not
CBX. In that action CBX Mobile Edition is renamed to just CBX, promissing
not much for the original CBX, wich got one patch, but nobody knows what is
repaired.

I agree. CBX 1.0 (not mobile edition) has had one patch which didn't
appear to fix much, it certainly didn't touch any of the numerous
problems in QC for CBX. Since then, there has been no word on future
CBX support (not mobile development) so IMHO, CBX is the product that is
'in limbo' along with BCB also.
Cheers
Russell
 

Re:Re: Sad

"Peter Agricola" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:40b1fdbd$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I don't share it. ;-)
You saved me the time posting the response <g>
I would only add that I wouldn't tout anything positive as
far as Kylix is concerned. Our Linux shop vetoed CBX because
of the similarity in Borland's handling of it to Kylix. They tried
Kylix, didn't like it and found that Borland's support was
horrible. CBX, to them, has the same symptoms. A lot of
promises and no follow through. I can't say that I blame them.
Actually, I find Jeff's post disturbing. We were happy when CBX 1.5 was
released as we thought it was a patch for CBX. We were told by several
Borland employees that it wasn't and that it wasn't even the same family
of products. It didn't address any bugs reported to QC anyway and was
if anything, a buggier interface for the IDE.
AFAICT at this point, the only "Active" product that Borland has is Delphi.
Yep, I know that there's some allusion to an "open letter" that will solve
all of our problems but even if it's released today and extremely positive,
who will believe it?
Borland has taken one of the most loyal customer bases that I've seen
(myself included) and destroyed it. I don't appreciate being told that my
understanding of this is incorrect because Kylix was well supported, CBX
is still active (CBX 1.5) and there will be some marvelous "open letter"
that will show me that BCB is still alive. It's like when they told us that QC
was going to be a serious tool to assist in meeting our needs and that
we should continue to use it. Then we find out that the Borland guys
don't even have a reliable way to see what's there. At any rate,
in the last year or so, NO entry in QC for BCB or CBX has been
addressed. (Actually, looking at the reports for BCB, there are still
BCB5 bugs that were never addressed and show up in BCB6 as well.)
So much for customer support.
Sorry Jeff, but that's my opinion. Sorry for the long diatribe but ...
 

Re:Re: Sad

Quote
>I haven't programmed with BCB since version 4, since most of my work
>involved VC. But I recently have to do a project involving a legacy
>paradox based application and will use BCB, but perusing this NG, it
>seems the product support has gone south since that time.

Birds that go south usually come back, after winter. It has been said
that this may be the case for BCB as well (no, don't pin me down on the
"winter" part, and mind you that I am not an ornithologist <g>).
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
Man, I hope you are right. I'm already 10 times more productive getting a
gui application up to connect to a database with BCB than I ever was with
VC. I can't believe it! I get the same point n'click stuff those pissant
VB programmers got, with the power of the C++ language! I hope Borland
starts better promoting the tool, and I'd love to have better documentation
and literature on how to effectively use the tool as well.
-Don
 

Re:Re: Sad

At 14:04:53, 24.05.2004, Peter Agricola wrote:
Quote

"Rudy Velthuis wrote:
>You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I don't share it.

But it seems he is right.
Not to me.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because you
might not get there."
- Yogi Berra
 

Re:Re: Sad

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" wrote:
Quote
>But it seems he is right.

Not to me.
No. That is what you wrote.
Peter
 

Re:Re: Sad

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" wrote:
Quote
You said it seemed. I only wanted to put that in prespective. <g>
It was already in perspective.
Peter
 

Re:Re: Sad

At 20:18:31, 24.05.2004, Peter Agricola wrote:
Quote

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" wrote:
>>But it seems he is right.
>
>Not to me.

No. That is what you wrote.
You said it seemed. I only wanted to put that in prespective. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"When you do the common things in life in an uncommon way, you will
command the attention of the world."
- George Washington Carver (1864-1943)
 

Re:Re: Sad

"Duane Hebert" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
AFAICT at this point, the only "Active" product that Borland has is
Delphi.
Yep, I know that there's some allusion to an "open letter" that will solve
all of our problems but even if it's released today and extremely
positive,
who will believe it?
Indeed. We've been round this loop too often already. Anyone who is
waiting with bated breath for the Open Letter and/or breaks out a crate of
champagne when it (finally) gets published really needs to get a life. What
we need is product, not promises of product (an open letter). At the
moment, all we've got is promises of a promise of a product.....which is
{*word*76}y ridiculous! The TeamB cheerleaders can do all the high-kicks they
want, twizzle their pompoms all they want (sorry, things get a bit vague
here 'cos I'm a brit and we're not that familiar with cheerleaders <g>) but
it's all just *talk* .....
Quote
Borland has taken one of the most loyal customer bases that I've seen
(myself included) and destroyed it.
They couldn't have done it better if they'd done it deliberately....
Quote
It's like when they told us that QC was going to be a serious tool to
assist in meeting our needs and that we should continue to use it.
Then we find out that the Borland guys don't even have a reliable
way to see what's there.
I think QC is a serious tool - make no mistake about that. But for some
time I've subscribed to the view that QC's real raison d'etre is to keep all
the bug reports out of the public newsgroups. That's the real purpose
behind the thing.
Dave
 

Re:Re: Sad

"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Birds that go south usually come back, after winter.
Not if they're dodos.
Dave
 

Re:Re: Sad

"Jeff Overcash (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
C#B was released 11 months ago and is hinted at its next revision
will be around D9 time.
Does this mean there's actually a roadmap for D9? With provisional
specification and release dates - even to the nearest quarter?
And are the C#B hints stronger or weaker than the BCB hints re 'BCB9'?
- Roddy