Board index » cppbuilder » Hold onto your hats!!

Hold onto your hats!!


2003-09-16 01:49:43 AM
cppbuilder82
Things are about to get reeeeally interesting...
BCBX has been officially anounced and is available for purchase:
www.borland.com/cbuilderx/
tinyurl.com/3ujt
From what Borland has announced so far though, i'm still not 100% on why its
called 'Builder'
 
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Adam Versteegen wrote:
Quote
Things are about to get reeeeally interesting...

BCBX has been officially anounced and is available for purchase:

www.borland.com/cbuilderx/

tinyurl.com/3ujt

From what Borland has announced so far though, i'm still not 100% on
why its called 'Builder'
Their IDE products, except the Delphi line (i.e. Delphi and Kylix) are
called -Builder: C++Builder, JBuilder, C#Builder (actually, Delphi was
supposed to become AppBuilder, but they liked the project name Delphi
more <g>).
I guess they wanted to continue that tradition.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to
me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
Their IDE products, except the Delphi line (i.e. Delphi and Kylix) are
called -Builder: C++Builder, JBuilder, C#Builder (actually, Delphi was
supposed to become AppBuilder, but they liked the project name Delphi
more <g>).
I guess I always associated 'builder' with RAD, as it seemed as though all
the RAD products were named 'Builder' whereas not all their products that
had an IDE are called 'Builder'. Borland has just announced that a *preview*
of the new RAD abilities will be available with CBuilderX, indicating its
not an integral part of the new product, hence my uncertainty.
Quote
I guess they wanted to continue that tradition.
I guess I misunderstood the naming tradition.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Adam Versteegen wrote:
Quote
Things are about to get reeeeally interesting...

BCBX has been officially anounced and is available for purchase:

www.borland.com/cbuilderx/

tinyurl.com/3ujt

From what Borland has announced so far though, i'm still not 100% on why its
called 'Builder'
This announcement came out of nowhere... kind of like the C#Builder
announcement. Borland really is full of surprises lately.
<speculation>
It seems like C++BuilderX is based on the JBuilder IDE core (because it
runs on Windows, Linux and Solaris like JBuilder does).
</speculation>
Now, one question... does it allow RAD development on all these
platforms with all these disparate C++ compilers??? If so, it is quite
a development tool.
Thanks,
Kevin.
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

"Adam Versteegen" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
BCBX has been officially anounced and is available for purchase:
It has been announced, that is all. It is not available for purchase yet,
if you read the site more closely.
Oh wait, they changed the site. I was just there not an hour ago and
CBuilderX was not listed for purchase yet. They must have JUST added it a
few moments ago.
Quote
From what Borland has announced so far though, i'm still not 100%
on why its called 'Builder'
Legal requirements with other vendors require Borland to continue carrying
the "Builder" name.
Gambit
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Re:Hold onto your hats!!

"Adam Versteegen" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
I guess I always associated 'builder' with RAD, as it seemed as
though all the RAD products were named 'Builder' whereas not
all their products that had an IDE are called 'Builder'. Borland has
just announced that a *preview* of the new RAD abilities will
be available with CBuilderX, indicating its not an integral part
of the new product, hence my uncertainty.
CBuiderX is still in its infancy. Full RAD support ala the current Builder
tools will be added in a near-future release. Right now, it is just a
preview of the new IDE and some of the new tools support.
Gambit
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Re:Hold onto your hats!!

"Kevin" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
It seems like C++BuilderX is based on the JBuilder IDE core
It is. JBuilder's core was already well suited to CBuilderX's new
architecture, so Borland decided to utilize an existing stable core rather
than make a whole new one from scratch again. They had to make only a small
amount of adjustments to the core to fully support CBuilderX, and prepare
for future enhancements/additions later on.
Quote
Now, one question... does it allow RAD development on all these
platforms with all these disparate C++ compilers???
Eventually, it will, yes. RAD != GUI, although most people do think they
are the same thing. CBuilderX is not a GUI development tool at the moment,
but it will be soon.
Gambit
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Re:Hold onto your hats!!

"Adam Versteegen" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

>Their IDE products, except the Delphi line (i.e. Delphi
>and Kylix) are called -Builder: C++Builder, JBuilder,
>C#Builder (actually, Delphi was supposed to become
>AppBuilder, but they liked the project name Delphi
>more <g>).

I guess I always associated 'builder' with RAD, as it
seemed as though all the RAD products were named
'Builder' whereas not all their products that had an IDE
are called 'Builder'. Borland has just announced that a
*preview* of the new RAD abilities will be available
with CBuilderX, indicating its not an integral part of the
new product, hence my uncertainty.
I think what they mean is that wxWindows support is
available now. That is the pure-play C++ GUI framework.
And as far as I can tell from the demo, it is true 2-way
RAD, which perfectly justifies calling it c++BUILDERx.
However, the "preview" bit might be a reference to later
VCL support (since I imagine that wxWindows doesn't
support the full range of native widgets on Win32).
Quote
>I guess they wanted to continue that tradition.

I guess I misunderstood the naming tradition.
I agree with your understanding of the naming. When I
see "Builder" in a Borland product name, I expect and
demand RAD. And as far as I can tell, CBX delivers.
Dave
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
"Kevin" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:3f6604d8$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...


>It seems like C++BuilderX is based on the JBuilder IDE core


It is. JBuilder's core was already well suited to CBuilderX's new
architecture, so Borland decided to utilize an existing stable core rather
than make a whole new one from scratch again. They had to make only a small
amount of adjustments to the core to fully support CBuilderX, and prepare
for future enhancements/additions later on.

Hmmm... I wonder why the similar consideration of keeping the VCL
present in this version didn't apply? After all, it is based on another
product (Delphi), is relatively stable (after 5 versions in Builder, 7
in Delphi), and wouldn't have required many adjustments.
Further, changing the IDE doesn't require re-writing code (for the
end-user), but changing the core framework does (hugely). It is a
strange dichotomy that Borland has apparently said that they wanted to
leverage their existing code (from J Builder), but haven't done the same
for the C++ Builder users. Perhaps that's because they didn't use C++
Builder for their own products themselves?
David Erbas-White
Quote

>Now, one question... does it allow RAD development on all these
>platforms with all these disparate C++ compilers???


Eventually, it will, yes. RAD != GUI, although most people do think they
are the same thing. CBuilderX is not a GUI development tool at the moment,
but it will be soon.


Gambit


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Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
CBuiderX is still in its infancy. Full RAD support ala the current
Builder
tools will be added in a near-future release. Right now, it is just a
preview of the new IDE and some of the new tools support.
But if its just a 'preview' who's going to fork out $2,500 USD for it?
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
"Kevin" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:3f6604d8$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...


>It seems like C++BuilderX is based on the JBuilder IDE core


It is. JBuilder's core was already well suited to CBuilderX's new
architecture, so Borland decided to utilize an existing stable core rather
than make a whole new one from scratch again. They had to make only a small
amount of adjustments to the core to fully support CBuilderX, and prepare
for future enhancements/additions later on.

Considering the involvement of Borland and Together in the Eclipse
project, I am surprised that it's not based on Eclipse instead of JBuilder.
regards,
jeff
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Adam Versteegen wrote:
Quote
But if its just a 'preview' who's going to fork out $2,500 USD for it?
People who want to be extremely productive writing C++ code,
particularly on the new platforms and tool chains we support.
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
$1280/$50K: homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish: qc.borland.com * Get source
codecentral.borland.com
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Jeff Weir wrote:
Quote
Considering the involvement of Borland and Together in the Eclipse
project, I am surprised that it's not based on Eclipse instead of JBuilder.
It's based on Primetime, not JBuilder. I suggest that if you knew more
about Primetime, you wouldn't wonder this, because it did what Eclipse
does before Eclipse existed ;-)
The OTA for Primetime was always designed to support multiple languages
and designers
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, bdn.borland.com
$1280/$50K: homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish: qc.borland.com * Get source
codecentral.borland.com
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Kevin wrote:
Quote
<speculation>
It seems like C++BuilderX is based on the JBuilder IDE core (because it
runs on Windows, Linux and Solaris like JBuilder does).
</speculation>
Your speculation is spot-on. CBX is based on JBuilder IDE core.
Quote

Now, one question... does it allow RAD development on all these
platforms with all these disparate C++ compilers??? If so, it is quite
a development tool.

Not at the moment, but that's the plan for future releases.
.a
 

Re:Hold onto your hats!!

Quote
But if its just a 'preview' who's going to fork out $2,500 USD for it?
That is a very good question. Hopefully someone from Borland will chime
in here. Here is my take on this.
There are two 'preview' components in C++BuilderX, from what I can see
on the website: the new compiler and the new C++ multiplatform framework
with visual tools. The latter is listed in the feature matrix shown in
the technical overview. The compiler was listed as a checkbox in the
tour, but does not appear in the feature matrix.
If you remove the preview components from C++BuilderX, is the product
itself valuable and is it worth the cost? Well, there is a lot of stuff
there. Multi-platform and multi-compiler debugging is cool, and the
together 2 way modeling is also pretty sweet.
For some people, these features are very important (ie worth the money),
and for some people they are not. This is a judgment call that you and
others here will have to make. As for the notion that you have to pay to
use preview technologies, I think that is a bit unfair.
In that past, Borland has been extremely tight lipped regarding future
products. Do you remember the dbExpress preview that shipped with BCB5.
Or how about the ADO and Interbase express previews that shipped with
BCB4? Or how about the soap preview that they posted for download before
BCB6 shipped? No, obviously not because those previews never happened.
Even though Borland was moving away from the BDE, customers never got to
see the direction they were going until the new libraries shipped.
Likewise, we also never got a glimpse of new SOAP tools.
Borland is working on a new C++ UI framework. That much is certain. Now
they can either do so in complete secrecy, or they can be open about it.
I don't see how secrecy benefits anyone.
Lastly, we don't yet know what kind of upgrade path will be offered for
people from C++BuilderX 1.0 with previews to C++BuilderX with the real
thing. Borland may offer something generous here. They haven't commented
on this.
h^2