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Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?


2003-09-17 02:16:17 AM
cppbuilder60
The question: Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?
The possible answers:
1) Yes.
2) No.
3) Borland is waiting to see how loudly everyone complains if they don't make a VCL forms designer for BCBX.
I'd like to know which of these is the correct answer. "Some kind of VCL support" is not a useful answer. What kind?
If the answer is Yes then When? Within 6 months? Within a year? In more than a year?
There are a lot of VCL controls available. One can make fancy GUI apps in BCB. I just want to know whether it is unwise to start new C++ VCL apps or whether the BCBX will support them with a forms designer.
 
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Randall Parker wrote:
Quote

The question: Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

The possible answers:

1) Yes.

2) No.
3) They are working on it for the next release?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"The concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to earn better
than a 'C', the idea must be feasible."
-- A Yale University management professor in response to student Fred
Smith's paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service (Smith
went on to found Federal Express Corp.)
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Plenty of other threads have answered this. No VCL forms designer in
1.0. And only a preview of the wxWindows forms designer, if I
understand correctly. As far as a VCL forms designer, they are
saying, "real soon we'll have something". When the "real soon" will
be, or what the "something" will be, is TBD.
On 16 Sep 2003 11:16:17 -0700, "Randall Parker"
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote

The question: Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

The possible answers:

1) Yes.

2) No.

3) Borland is waiting to see how loudly everyone complains if they don't make a VCL forms designer for BCBX.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

XXXX@XXXXX.COM wrote:
Quote
As far as a VCL forms designer, they are
saying, "real soon we'll have something". When the "real soon" will
be, or what the "something" will be, is TBD.
No one has promised a VCL forms designer. A forms designer, yes. A VCL
forms designer, who knows.
h^2
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Rudy,
Your answer 3 is my answer 1.
I don't care whether it is part of a point release, a v2 release, an added free download, an additional optional purchase download, or what. I just want to know whether Borland has committed to and is working in a VCL forms designer for BCBX.
If the answer is Yes then I want to know approximately when this might come out.
It is possible they've decided No. It is possible they have not decided and are waiting to see how users react. I want to know the answer to this basic question. What has Borland decided at this point? Is BCB v6 the last C++/VCL forms designer we can expect from Borland? That is what I use BCB for. That is by far the main reason why I want to continue to use BCB and BCBX.
As for wxWindows or whatever it is called: hey, it might be nice. It might improve and become nice if it isn't nice now. But I don't really care at this point. I have apps written in BCB with VCL that are sold to customers and have many users that will continue to exist for many years and go thru many releases as C++/VCL apps. If BCBX gets a VCL forms designer then those apps will exist as C++/VCL apps for many more years than would be the case if Borland doesn't support a VCL designer.
To me this is a very important question. It is the only question I have about BCBX. Maybe Borland wants me to think about things about BCBX and other ways to use it. But I can't get beyond that question. I want an answer to it. If Borland supports VCL form designing in BCBX then I will definitely use it (unless it is just a terrible thing to use - but I assume they didn't{*word*222}it up). If they don't support VCL form designing then I can't say whether I will ever use BCBX. It becomes just a lot less compelling without a VCL forms designer.
If Borland doesn't want to answer this question now then why not? Why leave your customers{*word*154} about your commitment to VCL forms design support? My guess is that the vast bulk of your existing BCB users are doing VCL forms development and really don't want to have to migrate existing apps to a different UI API. That would take man-weeks or man-months or man-years of developer time and so why do it?
I find the whole discussion about BCBX tedious. I realize that BCBX might turn out to be a great thing for some kinds of C++ development. But I don't want to hear about it. I just want to know whether I'm looking at a major investment in time to move existing apps to a different API that might not even have functional equivalents for what existing VCL controls can do and that might be buggy or slower and that, generally speaking, would introduce new risks and new costs to continued development of existing apps.
So, Borland, please answer the question.
"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Randall Parker wrote:

>
>The question: Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?
>
>The possible answers:
>
>1) Yes.
>
>2) No.

3) They are working on it for the next release?

--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Peppy,
No thread has answered this. Most developers don't even seem to have figured out yet that this is the key issue for them about BCBX.
Borland has NOT publically committed to providing a VCL forms designer in BCBX. Go show me where they have. Show me the John Kaster quote where he has said this. He hasn't. I've read everything he's said.
XXXX@XXXXX.COM wrote:
Quote
Plenty of other threads have answered this. No VCL forms designer in
1.0. And only a preview of the wxWindows forms designer, if I
understand correctly. As far as a VCL forms designer, they are
saying, "real soon we'll have something". When the "real soon" will
be, or what the "something" will be, is TBD.

 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Quote
I don't care whether it is part of a point release, a v2 release, an
added free download, an additional optional purchase download, or
what. I just want to know whether Borland has committed to and is
working in a VCL forms designer for BCBX.
At this point, we don't know whether the answer is 'yes', 'no', or
'we'll wait and see'. Here is one thing we do know. The IDE is now built
on a proven, well tested, and well designed framework. As such, from
what little I know of the open tools system in jbuilder and CBX, it
should be technically feasible to create a forms designer and datamodule
designer for the classic VCL.
This isn't saying much, but it does mean that the door is not closed on
supporting the VCL with some kind of form designer. Furthermore, if
Borland doesn't support the VCL, I would fully expect an open source
effort to emerge that will.
Even if they have decided no, I don't think it is too late to change
their minds.
H^2
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

I guess it was a Team-B guy that said that a VCL forms designer was
being worked on or at least being looked into. Though he naturally
wouldn't be able to actually speak officially for Borland, he sounded
like he had some real info.
So, if John K. is reading this, is this correct? What is the official
plans on VCL forms designing in future releases of BCBX?
On 16 Sep 2003 12:25:58 -0700, "Randall Parker"
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote

Peppy,

No thread has answered this. Most developers don't even seem to have figured out yet that this is the key issue for them about BCBX.

Borland has NOT publically committed to providing a VCL forms designer in BCBX. Go show me where they have. Show me the John Kaster quote where he has said this. He hasn't. I've read everything he's said.

XXXX@XXXXX.COM wrote:
>Plenty of other threads have answered this. No VCL forms designer in
>1.0. And only a preview of the wxWindows forms designer, if I
>understand correctly. As far as a VCL forms designer, they are
>saying, "real soon we'll have something". When the "real soon" will
>be, or what the "something" will be, is TBD.
>
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
I guess it was a Team-B guy that said that a VCL forms designer
was being worked on or at least being looked into. Though he
naturally wouldn't be able to actually speak officially for Borland,
he sounded like he had some real info.
That was probably me.
Quote
So, if John K. is reading this, is this correct? What is the
official plans on VCL forms designing in future releases of BCBX?
There aren't any official plans, as far as anyone knows. Borland is keeping
quiet on that until they themselves know something more.
Gambit
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Harold,
I was about to start another BCB app next month as soon as I finish the next release of the app I'm working on. But if VCL isn't going to ever be supported on BCBX then I am torn on what to do next. To me this question is a practical one that I need an answer for. I could start making different decisions about new forms on existing apps and new apps if I knew for sure that Borland is going to abandon VCL support in C++.
Geez, I really hope they don't. But if they are not willing to say that they are going to support VCL forms design in BCBX then I'm inclined toward the view that they won't do it. If they are not going to say then I'm going to come to a pessimistic conclusion.
As for some open source effort: that'll take years if it ever happens and who knows how stable it will get and when. Hardly a satisfactory alternative at this point.
Borland is doing us no favors by staying silent.
Hey all you BCB users: if you want a VCL designer in BCBX you had better start telling Borland. It is by no means assured that it will happen.
"Harold Howe [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
At this point, we don't know whether the answer is 'yes', 'no', or
'we'll wait and see'. Here is one thing we do know. The IDE is now built
on a proven, well tested, and well designed framework. As such, from
what little I know of the open tools system in jbuilder and CBX, it
should be technically feasible to create a forms designer and datamodule
designer for the classic VCL.

This isn't saying much, but it does mean that the door is not closed on
supporting the VCL with some kind of form designer. Furthermore, if
Borland doesn't support the VCL, I would fully expect an open source
effort to emerge that will.

Even if they have decided no, I don't think it is too late to change
their minds.

H^2

 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Quote
I was about to start another BCB app next month as soon as I finish
the next release of the app I'm working on. But if VCL isn't going to
ever be supported on BCBX then I am torn on what to do next.
What would you have used if you were a month ahead of schedule?
Quote
Borland is doing us no favors by staying silent.
Silent is exactly what they have been for 2+ years. Now that they are
talking, people don't seem too happy.
h^2
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Harold.
I would have used BCB v6. But that is because when the letter came out a month or two ago about Borland's commitment to making a great new C++ IDE I figured there was no way they'd drop VCL designer support. I just figured they'd improve the C++ compiler and the IDE.
Silence the last couple of years: I didn't really start to worry until about 7 months after Delphi 7 came out. BCB has always lagged and so that delay for BCB v7 was to be expected. Even then I didn't worry so much because I figured they were just stretching out their general dev cycle. But I have grown increasingly more worried in recent months.
Perhaps you folks who follow Borland more closely knew to start worrying a lot sooner. I guess I should have been paying more attention.
"Harold Howe [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
>I was about to start another BCB app next month as soon as I finish
>the next release of the app I'm working on. But if VCL isn't going to
>ever be supported on BCBX then I am torn on what to do next.

What would you have used if you were a month ahead of schedule?

>Borland is doing us no favors by staying silent.

Silent is exactly what they have been for 2+ years. Now that they are
talking, people don't seem too happy.

h^2

 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

Randall Parker wrote:
Quote
Harold.

I would have used BCB v6. But that is because when the letter came out a month or two ago about Borland's commitment to making a great new C++ IDE I figured there was no way they'd drop VCL designer support. I just figured they'd improve the C++ compiler and the IDE.

Silence the last couple of years: I didn't really start to worry until about 7 months after Delphi 7 came out. BCB has always lagged and so that delay for BCB v7 was to be expected. Even then I didn't worry so much because I figured they were just stretching out their general dev cycle. But I have grown increasingly more worried in recent months.

Perhaps you folks who follow Borland more closely knew to start worrying a lot sooner. I guess I should have been paying more attention.
Friday last week I stopped by the bookstore of the local U to see if
they'd heard anything about BCB7. I did so because I saw that they were
out of BCB6 2 days before (I thought they send them back because BCB7
was coming out). Bottomline was: BCB sells, Jbuilder sells and Delphi
and Kylix are rotting on the shelves up there. I have no other sales
data tho.
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

What'll happen to the VCL db, websnap, 3rd party
reporting/charting, Intraweb, Indy? Will they be useless in
BCBX? I suppose the db components will be dbexpress, but won't
it be quite a job to replace all the stuff we get/can get for
BCB6.
 

Re:Will there be a VCL Forms Designer In BCBX?

M wrote:
Quote
>
>I would have used BCB v6. But that is because when the letter came out
>a month or two ago about Borland's commitment to making a great new
>C++ IDE I figured there was no way they'd drop VCL designer support. I
>just figured they'd improve the C++ compiler and the IDE.
But nothing has been stated from Borland since the letter that the VCL
support will be dropped so what has changed? Everything mentioned on
these groups is pure speculation from un-informed people (like myself)
so continue to use BCB6 until Borland officially drop it. I will for
current projects.
Thanks
Russell