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Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM


2003-11-15 05:43:20 AM
cppbuilder58
"Dennis Jones" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
To be fair to Borland though, notice that they are *not*
the ones saying, "CBX is targeting new customers."
Actually, they are. I'm not saying anything that hasn't already been said
by Borland earlier. They said that the first release of CBX is not meant
for existing (VCL) customers.
Gambit
 
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote

"Dennis Jones" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:3fb549a7$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

>To be fair to Borland though, notice that they are *not*
>the ones saying, "CBX is targeting new customers."

Actually, they are. I'm not saying anything that hasn't already been said
by Borland earlier. They said that the first release of CBX is not meant
for existing (VCL) customers.
If that were true, Remy, the uproar over this whole issue would be
non-existent. I don't suppose you could point us to a reference?
- Dennis
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Jeff Overcash (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote

>If that were true, Remy, the uproar over this whole issue would be
>non-existent. I don't suppose you could point us to a reference?
>

At the Meet the Team at BorCon JP clearly stated that the VCL users
(basically the current user base) were not the targeted audience for the
first release.
But that was long *after* the release of CBX! That is, I think, the biggest
mistake Borland made; they did not identify who their target audience was
for CBX version 1 -- that is, not until it was too late. If they had any
plans to target their current VCL customer base, that was not clear at the
beginning (nor is it very clear now - yet), and hence the FUD. Had it been
clear early on, we wouldn't be having this discussion today.
Quote
This did not please many in
attendence.
No kidding.
- Dennis
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
If you honestly believe that, then you are crazy. No respectable business
that cares about its future would ever do that.
On that, we're agreed.......
Quote
That is not true at all. VCL support was always planned since *Day 1* of
CBX's conception. It just hasn't been implemented yet. I honestly do not
know what JP's deal was at BorCon where he tried to play on the concept of
"oh, we didn't know, so we'll consider it now" when users approached him
with concerns about VCL's future. That is just plain wrong, and insiders
at
Borland (including TeamB) know better than that. That is *not* the
general
concensus throughout Borland, not even close. I do not know what he was
thinking.
Whatever he was thinking, he wasn't thinking anything to do with the VCL.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Remy. You only have to look at JP's original
open letter (August 5th, tinyurl.com/v53h) to see how it's just
packed full of references to VCL. Not! If VCL support really was planned
from the very beginning, I think somebody forgot to tell him.... :-)
Dave
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Dennis Jones" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
But that was long *after* the release of CBX! That is, I think, the
biggest
mistake Borland made; they did not identify who their target audience was
for CBX version 1 -- that is, not until it was too late. If they had any
plans to target their current VCL customer base, that was not clear at the
beginning (nor is it very clear now - yet), and hence the FUD.
Exactly. And no amount of back-pedalling, posturing and blatant revisionism
will change that.
Dave
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Actually, they are. I'm not saying anything that hasn't already been said
by Borland earlier. They said that the first release of CBX is not meant
for existing (VCL) customers.
And can you point us to a reference to that effect in the original
announcements, Remy?
Dave
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Dave Jewell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Whatever he was thinking, he wasn't thinking anything to do
with the VCL. Wake up and smell the coffee, Remy. You
only have to look at JP's original open letter (August 5th,
tinyurl.com/v53h) to see how it's just packed full of
references to VCL. Not! If VCL support really was
planned from the very beginning, I think somebody forgot
to tell him.... :-)
JP is higher up the food chain than the other people I normally deal with at
Borland. If he honestly did not understand VCL's importance, then yes, that
would probably imply a communications problem inside Borland. I know for a
fact that the lower levels (aka the programmers and their managers) are more
aware of the VCL and knew all along the importance of adding it to CBX. I
also know for a fact that such concerns were voiced to JP earlier on. What
I don't know is how much they were voiced, or how much he actually heard. I
don't even want to try to speculate on that.
Gambit
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Dave Jewell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
And can you point us to a reference to that effect
in the original announcements, Remy?
I never said it was part of the original announcements. I said that it was
announced in general. Specifically, it was announced to TeamB in private
awhile ago, and then by Borland officials publically at BorCon.
Gambit
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

Marcelo R. Lopez, Jr. < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Hendrik....

If my whole post had been capital letters, from what I remember about
"netiquette", then that would be considered shouting. Since I
specifically chose which words to capitalize, and which ones I
didn't, that, as Dave pointed out, is called EMPHASIS.
Why do you shout that at me?
I said that typing all caps is considered
shouting. I never said it was not done for
emphasis.
(Oh, and BTW, I don't like it. But I didn't
say anything about that so far.)
Quote
[...]
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"And why should I know better by now/When I'm old enough not to?"
Beth Orton
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
>If VCL support really was planned from the very beginning,
>I think somebody forgot to tell him.... :-)
JP is higher up the food chain than the other people I normally deal with
at
Borland. If he honestly did not understand VCL's importance, then yes,
that
would probably imply a communications problem inside Borland.
Ha - knew you'd bite! See how good I am to 'ya, throwing you a subtle
little life-line like that? It even sounds vaguely plausible, doesn't it?
Maybe I should be working for Borland Developer Relations. Go on -- make me
an offer..... :-))
Dave
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
I never said it was part of the original announcements. I said that it
was
announced in general. Specifically, it was announced to TeamB in private
awhile ago, and then by Borland officials publically at BorCon.
OK, ....... so the official scenario is that Borland announces a new
product, knowing that it's intended to target new customers, and is not so
relevant to existing customers until a future version is released at some
unspecified date. Fearing that existing customers might accidentally buy
the product, Borland kindly alerts TeamB members to the dangers of
purchasing CBX 1.0, but inadvertently forgets to tell everyone
else.....until BorCon, by which time everyone else has smelled a rat anyway.
Yup, makes perfect sense, Remy.
Geez.....how much sherry did my wife put in that trifle? :-)
Dave
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Dave Jewell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
"Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
message
news:3fb69c46$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

>I never said it was part of the original announcements. I said that it
was
>announced in general. Specifically, it was announced to TeamB in
private
>awhile ago, and then by Borland officials publically at BorCon.

OK, ....... so the official scenario is that Borland announces a new
product, knowing that it's intended to target new customers, and is not so
relevant to existing customers until a future version is released at some
unspecified date. Fearing that existing customers might accidentally buy
the product, Borland kindly alerts TeamB members to the dangers of
purchasing CBX 1.0, but inadvertently forgets to tell everyone
else.....until BorCon, by which time everyone else has smelled a rat
anyway.
Yup, makes perfect sense, Remy.
You might as well give it up, Dave. It's like trying to tell someone who is
love about all the faults and failings of the object of their affection.
They'll just never see it.
- Dennis
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Dave Jewell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Maybe I should be working for Borland Developer Relations.
Go on -- make me an offer..... :-))
Sorry, I don't have that kind of authority ;-)
Gambit
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

"Dave Jewell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
OK, ....... so the official scenario is that Borland announces
a new product, knowing that it's intended to target new
customers, and is not so relevant to existing customers until
a future version is released at some unspecified date. Fearing
that existing customers might accidentally buy the product,
Borland kindly alerts TeamB members to the dangers of
purchasing CBX 1.0, but inadvertently forgets to tell
everyone else.....until BorCon, by which time everyone else
has smelled a rat anyway.
So it would seem this time around :-(
Gambit
 

Re:Re: Email sent to XXXX@XXXXX.COM

My guess is that the BCBX programmers and their immediate managers
understood the importance of Win32 VCL support (after all, how hard
could be be for people down at the technical level to understand this?)
but that they didn't have funding from higher ups to staff work on it.
Now lots of customers have been shouting for a few months and maybe,
just maybe, sufficient funding will be allocated. And then again, maybe not.
Borland ought to make a BCB v6.5 that fixes everything in the IDE and
gives us something to use while BCBX matures. But my guess is that they
don't think they have the money to fund something that they view as a
dead-end. But if a really good BCB v6.5 was released and here in the
forums people enumerated all the bugs that were slayed then some of the
current users at various version levels would upgrade to it, develop a
better attitude toward Borland, and be far more willing to upgrade to
BCBX at some later date.
My point is that Borland has damaged their relations with their C++
customers and they could get a good return on investment if they gave
BCB users a really solid product to use. But maybe they think they don't
have the cash to spend to do that.
Dave Jewell wrote:
Quote
OK, ....... so the official scenario is that Borland announces a new
product, knowing that it's intended to target new customers, and is not so
relevant to existing customers until a future version is released at some
unspecified date. Fearing that existing customers might accidentally buy
the product, Borland kindly alerts TeamB members to the dangers of
purchasing CBX 1.0, but inadvertently forgets to tell everyone
else.....until BorCon, by which time everyone else has smelled a rat anyway.
Yup, makes perfect sense, Remy.

Geez.....how much sherry did my wife put in that trifle? :-)

Dave