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MS must help Borland and us ?


2004-05-25 03:59:30 AM
cppbuilder37
Bonjour
Looking at Borland's policy in two last years I suppose that the firm want
to go back to Inprise. I mean, it want to leave the market of development
tools for Win, Linux, dotnet and become the producer of integrated solutions
(or stay with Java tools only with unclear perspectives).
But if Borland become Inprise, Microsoft in fact stay the monopolist in
this market.
I don't see any other firms capable to compete MS because it take huge
investments owing to the low technology level in this domain in comparision
with Borland and MS. So, the conclusions:
1. Borland is the single company now which can potentially compete MS with
minimum investements.
2. To avoid the anti-monopoly lawsuit, MS must support Borland, not Inprise.
 
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

"Serguei Tarassov" wrote
Quote
Bonjour

Looking at Borland's policy in two last years I suppose that the firm want
to go back to Inprise. I mean, it want to leave the market of development
tools for Win, Linux, dotnet and become the producer of integrated
solutions
(or stay with Java tools only with unclear perspectives).

But if Borland become Inprise, Microsoft in fact stay the monopolist in
this market.
I don't see any other firms capable to compete MS because it take huge
investments owing to the low technology level in this domain in
comparision
with Borland and MS. So, the conclusions:
1. Borland is the single company now which can potentially compete MS
with
minimum investements.
2. To avoid the anti-monopoly lawsuit, MS must support Borland, not
Inprise.

It seems to me, according the e{*word*277}ment of meeting Bill, and the efforts to
please him, Borland is already a subsidiary of Microsoft. It's just like the
Bigg Boss is visiting the stand.
bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32063,00.html
Peter
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Serguei Tarassov wrote:
Quote
1. Borland is the single company now which can potentially compete MS with
minimum investements.
2. To avoid the anti-monopoly lawsuit, MS must support Borland, not Inprise.
Hmm. A bright idea? :)
Borland is already a subsidiary of MS. Among other things, find the
article "Did borland create .NET" (or something like this) on
delphi.about.com. This is just one thing in the row.
--
Eugene Mayevski
EldoS Corp., CTO
Security and networking solutions
www.eldos.com
 

{smallsort}

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Quote
Hmm. A bright idea? :)
Borland is already a subsidiary of MS. Among other things, find the
article "Did borland create .NET" (or something like this) on
delphi.about.com. This is just one thing in the row.
Try this link: delphi.about.com/library/weekly/aa112902a.htm
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Have you noticed that in every picture, Bill G. has his hand on his chin - this (in body language terms) is a
defensive posture, and is usually sported by people trying to hide the truth from enquiry.
The following is the seer's view of current trends :-
I am pretty sure (having gone through Borland's audit logs) that Inprise (and all that malarkey) was a cover
for Borland's migration into Microsoft's pocket. This means that Borland has been subject to Microsoft
development policies for many years now. And this is why we find ourselves (BCB developers) floundering in an
incoming tide of new Microsoft proprietary technologies. Borland will make a pig's ear in trying to support
them quickly, and in the meantime, Microsoft leisurely stroll into the marketplace with rock solid platforms
to leverage these new technologies. Borland will not change direction (because they are *NOT* allowed to), and
will ultimately fail woefully as their development packages meet dwindling approval from both formers clients
and new ones.
Then, after about 5 years of success in the developer marketplace, Microsoft will bring out "the straw that
broke the camel's back". It will be a new technology that basically forces PC users to be connected to the
Internet in order to use their PCs. It will be hyped and marketed as "a very good idea", but the short-sighted
consequences of basing the OS on components that are distributed far and wide, and maintained remotely by
Microsoft on their servers (which seems like a good idea), will be debilitating to the user-base who find the
internet too busy for reliable OS support, and will instead migrate in droves to Linux or Unix or whatever
else may be around at the time, simply because they cannot use the PC they've bought with the MS OS
pre-installed. Microsoft shares will plummet, and by about 2015, they will be bankrupt.
Just my opinion - "The Grand Vizier"
--
Mark Jacobs
DK Computing
www.dkcomputing.co.uk
markj atty critical dotty co dotty uk
"Peter Agricola" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:40b257f3$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote

"Serguei Tarassov" wrote
>Bonjour
>
>Looking at Borland's policy in two last years I suppose that the firm want
>to go back to Inprise. I mean, it want to leave the market of development
>tools for Win, Linux, dotnet and become the producer of integrated
solutions
>(or stay with Java tools only with unclear perspectives).
>
>But if Borland become Inprise, Microsoft in fact stay the monopolist in
>this market.
>I don't see any other firms capable to compete MS because it take huge
>investments owing to the low technology level in this domain in
comparision
>with Borland and MS. So, the conclusions:
>1. Borland is the single company now which can potentially compete MS
with
>minimum investements.
>2. To avoid the anti-monopoly lawsuit, MS must support Borland, not
Inprise.
>


It seems to me, according the e{*word*277}ment of meeting Bill, and the efforts to
please him, Borland is already a subsidiary of Microsoft. It's just like the
Bigg Boss is visiting the stand.
bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32063,00.html


Peter


 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Quote
I am pretty sure (having gone through Borland's audit logs)
that Inprise (and all that malarkey) was a cover for Borland's
migration into Microsoft's pocket. This means that Borland
Yeah, {*word*97} theory, that's the ticket! Bill Gates is plotting to
take over Borland and rule the world!
Fun stuff to present for laughs, but you shouldn't take such thoughts
seriously Mark.
. Ed
Quote
Mark Jacobs wrote in message
news:40b31966$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Ed Mulroy [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Yeah, {*word*97} theory, that's the ticket! Bill Gates is plotting to
rule the world!
Thats {*word*97} theory??
--
Vesty.
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Yes.
. Ed
Quote
Adam Versteegen wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

Thats {*word*97} theory??
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Then, despite your many years of existence on this planet run by humans, you still think money and power makes
light-hearted philanthropists of all men!!! Mankind is corrupt, greedy and power-hungry. I am not and I am
therefore different to the average man in the street. Perhaps, with our optimistic nature and trust in all
mankind, we are a different species, Ed !?!
I feel that computer programmers are the most important people on the planet currently, for they will set the
pathways for all future technologies to come. It is therefore our responsibility to protect those pathway
foundations for the future, from all the near-sighted, power-hungry and greedy exploiters (like Microsoft and
Bill Gates) and their destructive ways.
Currently, we are failing dismally. As another poster has said, "..we are being led around like pigs with
rings through our noses..."
The most surprising thing I read today was that Anders Hejlsberg was led off to Microsoft from Borland by a
money incentive. I thought that geezer was supposed to have been bright - I mean he designed all of Delphi.
The article is at delphi.about.com/library/weekly/aa112902b.htm
IMO, unless programmers can really state that $1,000,000 would not tempt them to sell their programming
secrets and asses to Microsoft, then they should not be programming. The world is in a mess because people put
money before people - it is time to enter a new era and stop being motivated by money. The first step is to
stop forcing people to choose between earning money or starving to death. More at
www.jacobsm.com/index.htm
Or is it that we'll get :-
"The world is a mess"
"Here are some solutions"
"No, forget it, I'll be poorer - let's leave it a mess"
--
Mark Jacobs
DK Computing
www.dkcomputing.co.uk
markj atty critical dotty co dotty uk
"Ed Mulroy [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:40b32c72$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
Yes.

. Ed

>Adam Versteegen wrote in message
>news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>
>Thats {*word*97} theory??


 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

I seem to have become subscribed to borland.public.cppbuilder.non-sensical
by mistake.
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Quote
The first step is to
stop forcing people to choose between earning money or starving to death.
Communism only works if everyone subscribes to it. It doesn't work if
someone wants to get "one-up" on someone else.
Group Mutualism is an interesting theory. Everyone gets paid for what they
work. Ergo you do work for someone else and they pay you. They have to do
work (make bread, wash a car, write a program) and someone else pays them,
and so on. Again only really works if everyone subscribes to it.
G.
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Mark Jacobs <markj atty critical dotty co dotty uk>wrote:
Quote
[...]
I feel that computer programmers are the most important people on the planet currently, for they will set the
pathways for all future technologies to come. [...]
I think that, for example, those who deal
with our children are a lot more important
than us few hackers, as they really set
the pathway for our future (which future
technology is only a part of).
Oh, and add the guys in Asia to this that
assemble the hardware we are programming
for. And maybe those guys that breed the
meat and grow the cerials most of us eat
to much of. And how many programmers claim
to run on coffee?
Get a life.
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"Sometimes compilers are so much more reasonable than people."
Scott Meyers
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

Listen, as soon as women have employed technology to manufacture {*word*237}, us men are going to be redundant. That
there's the dim, distant future for all of us!! And a woman-run world won't be "investing" trillions of
tax-payers' dollars into researching ever more harmful ways of "defending" the nation. The world would change,
and probably for the better!!
--
Mark Jacobs
DK Computing
www.dkcomputing.co.uk
markj atty critical dotty co dotty uk
"Hendrik Schober" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:40b34e0f$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
I think that, for example, those who deal
with our children are a lot more important
than us few hackers, as they really set
the pathway for our future (which future
technology is only a part of).
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

"Mark Jacobs" <markj atty critical dotty co dotty uk>writes:
Quote
Then, despite your many years of existence on this planet run by humans,
you still think money and power makes light-hearted philanthropists of all
men!!!
[snip]
Could this be moved to borland.public.off-topic, please?
 

Re:MS must help Borland and us ?

EMS>Borland is already a subsidiary of MS. Among other things, find the
EMS>article "Did borland create .NET" (or something like this) on
EMS>delphi.about.com. This is just one thing in the row.
I mean some other.
Firstly, I must to say one evident thesis: to be copetetive, Borland's IDE
_must_ be better than MS ones. If they will be equals at least, MS tools
will be preferred owing to MS stability on the market and lesser investments
risk.
Looking at Borland's results on the Windows IDE's market:
1. C++Builder buried
2. C#Builder is not really competetive to VS
3. Delphi8 don't ready in fact at VCL compatibility level and it not support
Win32 as VS support
4. Both Delphi8 and C#Builder have two-way case tool (Together based) to
develop MDA application. Good idea ! But this tool works _only_ with ECS's
framework projects !
Great downgrade of Bold and ModelMaker for Delphi.
5. On the contrary, Together for VS works fine for all types of projects.
6. Kylix buried too and I don't know some sililar projects.
7. CBuilderX is the typical integrated solution with development technology
level comparable to initials versions of Borland C++ but without even
TurboVision. No more component envoronement.
This is great downgrade of C++Builder !
Conclusions:
Borland IDE's become the progressively worse that MS ones.
If this trend will continue, it mean the Borland leaving the market for
Windows and dotnet IDE.
And MS stay monopolist.
So, I think, the Borland role of the MS subsidiary is not good for MS first
of all.