Board index » cppbuilder » any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???


2005-01-03 05:47:20 PM
cppbuilder2
I do a lot of programing for enducational/r&d groups, whom to save
money have a requirement to use open source libs wherever possible.
I have been using BCB6 for ages now, and have spent many days trying
to get it to compile with lotsa opensource libs.
In some cases have been successfull but in many cases not, and forget
about linking to precompiled dlls, as everything seems to be setup for
ms VC++, and such.
With the new round of 2005 funding, i have requested ms vcc studio
2003 (but may wait for 2005 as i have heard there are major
imporvments coming).
My question is , is there any any any any any any any any any
indication that the new incarnation of bcb, will have the ability to
link to msvc compiled dll libs, or use the huge number of opensource
libs, that will compile with msvc.
I would love to have the new bcb features/vcl/gui design enviroment
and be able to use all thes e opensource libs, becasue if i can than i
would hold off the ms purchase and look at the new bcb instead.
Can anyone offer a ray of hope in this, becasue otherwise i will move
our entire r&d effort to ms vc++ 2003, this year
thanks for any info
 
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

Information seems pretty scarce at this point, but it seems "highly
possible" that integration between delphi and BCB will be better, so any
components available for delphi would automagically work for BCB without the
developers producing 'special' BCB versions. This may help you.
Personally I've had very few problems using a range of open source packages
with BCB (eg zlib,freetype,freeimage), and precompiled VS (or other) .DLLs
work just fine if they're C rather than C++.
Allegedly (I can't recall where I read this) some standard requires that C++
compilers MUST use different name-mangling algorithms from each other, so
using a precompiled VS C++ DLL in BCB (or vice-versa) is likely to be nigh
impossible. God only knows why this requirement exists, but personally I'd
love to see a 'fix' so that I can mix/match MS and Borland C++ DLLs easily.
- Roddy
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

Roddy Pratt wrote:
Quote
Information seems pretty scarce at this point, but it seems "highly
possible" that integration between delphi and BCB will be better, so any
components available for delphi would automagically work for BCB without the
developers producing 'special' BCB versions. This may help you.

Personally I've had very few problems using a range of open source packages
with BCB (eg zlib,freetype,freeimage), and precompiled VS (or other) .DLLs
work just fine if they're C rather than C++.

Allegedly (I can't recall where I read this) some standard requires that C++
compilers MUST use different name-mangling algorithms from each other, so
using a precompiled VS C++ DLL in BCB (or vice-versa) is likely to be nigh
impossible. God only knows why this requirement exists, but personally I'd
love to see a 'fix' so that I can mix/match MS and Borland C++ DLLs easily.
Probably the reason is that they use different way of representing
objects in the memory and different way of describing RTTI information
about classes in the DLL.
Doychin
 

{smallsort}

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

Roddy Pratt < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
[...]

Allegedly (I can't recall where I read this) some standard requires that C++
compilers MUST use different name-mangling algorithms from each other [...]
Rather than this, the C++ std does not require
different C++ compilers using the same mangling,
as this would implicate they need to use the
same binary layout for data and code.
Quote
- Roddy
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

I can't remember off the top of my head, but Borland has a program that will
allow you to use MS DLL's via the LIB file...I think its call COFF2OMF.EXE.
<Peted>wrote in message news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
I do a lot of programing for enducational/r&d groups, whom to save
money have a requirement to use open source libs wherever possible.
I have been using BCB6 for ages now, and have spent many days trying
to get it to compile with lotsa opensource libs.

In some cases have been successfull but in many cases not, and forget
about linking to precompiled dlls, as everything seems to be setup for
ms VC++, and such.

With the new round of 2005 funding, i have requested ms vcc studio
2003 (but may wait for 2005 as i have heard there are major
imporvments coming).

My question is , is there any any any any any any any any any
indication that the new incarnation of bcb, will have the ability to
link to msvc compiled dll libs, or use the huge number of opensource
libs, that will compile with msvc.

I would love to have the new bcb features/vcl/gui design enviroment
and be able to use all thes e opensource libs, becasue if i can than i
would hold off the ms purchase and look at the new bcb instead.

Can anyone offer a ray of hope in this, becasue otherwise i will move
our entire r&d effort to ms vc++ 2003, this year

thanks for any info
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

<Peted>wrote in message
Quote
I do a lot of programing for enducational/r&d groups, whom to save
money have a requirement to use open source libs wherever possible.
I have been using BCB6 for ages now, and have spent many days trying
to get it to compile with lotsa opensource libs.

In some cases have been successfull but in many cases not, and
forget
about linking to precompiled dlls, as everything seems to be setup
for
ms VC++, and such.
It has been stated that you can use COFF2OMF.EXE to convert a VC++ lib
format to the BCB format. This works in most cases IF the import lib
uses only pure C and its basic data types. However, the VC DLL and
your BCB EXE will likely use different memory managers and that can
get pretty thorny. You cannot use any classes defined in the DLL nor
can STL constructs such as std::string be passed across the interface.
Quote

With the new round of 2005 funding, i have requested ms vcc studio
2003 (but may wait for 2005 as i have heard there are major
imporvments coming).
Get the VC++ v8 beta compiler from Microsoft. It's free. VS 2005 is
certainly better than VS 2003. We're currently using it to start
porting BCB console apps to VC++. The killers are BCB's TDateTime,
AnsiString and ADO Express, all of which we use heavily.
Quote

My question is , is there any any any any any any any any any
indication that the new incarnation of bcb, will have the ability to
link to msvc compiled dll libs, or use the huge number of opensource
libs, that will compile with msvc.
I really doubt it.

I would love to have the new bcb features/vcl/gui design enviroment
and be able to use all thes e opensource libs, becasue if i can than
i
would hold off the ms purchase and look at the new bcb instead.
The VCL is very well architected and BCB 6 is probably still better at
RAD than VS 2005. But VS is catching up.
Quote

Can anyone offer a ray of hope in this,
Nope. It's cloudy today.
becasue otherwise i will move
our entire r&d effort to ms vc++ 2003, this year

thanks for any info
- Arnie
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

"Relaxin" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
Quote
I can't remember off the top of my head, but Borland has a program
that will allow you to use MS DLL's via the LIB file...I think its
call COFF2OMF.EXE.
Even still, I think that utility would only work for C functions, not
for anything exported as C++ objects, since the compilers are not
binrary compatible.
--
Chris (TeamB);
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

<Peted>wrote in message news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
In some cases have been successfull but in many cases not, and
forget about linking to precompiled dlls, as everything seems to
be setup for ms VC++, and such.
DLLs are usually not an issue. Just use IMPLIB to make a compatible import
lib. It is the static libs that are problematic, though.
Quote
My question is , is there any any any any any any any any any
indication that the new incarnation of bcb, will have the ability
to link to msvc compiled dll libs
VC++ DLLs are already usable in the current BCB offering.
Quote
or use the huge number of opensource libs, that will compile with msvc.
There is no indication of that. Personally, I think the real fault is in
the open-source developers for not writing BCB-compatible code in the first
place. Borland has been in the C++ market for a long time, yet everyone
ignores Borland.
Gambit
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

"Roddy Pratt" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Allegedly (I can't recall where I read this) some standard requires that
C++ compilers MUST use different name-mangling algorithms from
each other, so using a precompiled VS C++ DLL in BCB (or vice-versa)
is likely to be nigh impossible.
Even if that were true, Microsoft's lib format has been available for a long
time. Microsoft publicizes its COFF spec, and the name-mangling format has
been publically documented by third-parties. In practice, there is probably
nothing stopping Borland from supporting Microsoft's data formats in
addition to its own. If I am not mistaken, Microsoft already supports
Borland's formats. Besides, Borland and Microsoft are partners, so why
shouldn't they collaberate together to support each other's files?
Gambit
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

"Relaxin" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
I can't remember off the top of my head, but Borland has a program
that will allow you to use MS DLL's via the LIB file...I think its call
COFF2OMF.EXE.
COFF2OMF.EXE is for converting VC++ static libs into OMF format. The
utility you are actually thinking about is IMPLIB.EXE instead, which
produces an import lib from a DLL.
Gambit
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

"Remy Lebeau \(TeamB\)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
[snip]
Quote
>My question is , is there any any any any any any any any any
>indication that the new incarnation of bcb, will have the ability
>to link to msvc compiled dll libs

VC++ DLLs are already usable in the current BCB offering.
That's true for dll's that export C functions. It doesn't work with
C++.
Quote
>or use the huge number of opensource libs, that will compile with msvc.

There is no indication of that. Personally, I think the real fault is in
the open-source developers for not writing BCB-compatible code in the first
place. Borland has been in the C++ market for a long time, yet everyone
ignores Borland.
At the past, Borland was supported by most Windows Open Source. Now
the support is vanishing. Exactly, what do you think the reason for
this is? Why Open Source authors are not attracted by Borland anymore?
Do you think they are on some anti-Borland conspiration or somesuch?
--
Oscar
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
[...]

Even if that were true, Microsoft's lib format has been available for a long
time. Microsoft publicizes its COFF spec, and the name-mangling format has
been publically documented by third-parties. In practice, there is probably
nothing stopping Borland from supporting Microsoft's data formats in
addition to its own. If I am not mistaken, Microsoft already supports
Borland's formats. Besides, Borland and Microsoft are partners, so why
shouldn't they collaberate together to support each other's files?
/What/ do/should they support? I seriously
doubt that they can ever mutually support
the binary format of C++ code. Even if they
agreed on a format for POD, that leaves the
issue of different rtl and std libs, heap
managers etc. If they would agree on this,
they would be shipping the same product.
Quote
Gambit
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

Remy Lebeau (TeamB) < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
<Peted>wrote in message news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

>In some cases have been successfull but in many cases not, and
>forget about linking to precompiled dlls, as everything seems to
>be setup for ms VC++, and such.

DLLs are usually not an issue. [...]
If they have a C interface, that is.
Quote
Gambit
Schobi
--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

So far Borland has provided /no/ indication that they are working on improving
compiler standards compliance.
I too would like to use more open source libs.
Peted wrote:
Quote
My question is , is there any any any any any any any any any
indication that the new incarnation of bcb, will have the ability to
link to msvc compiled dll libs, or use the huge number of opensource
libs, that will compile with msvc.
 

Re:any info on new BCB compatability with opensource libs ???

Quote
VC++ DLLs are already usable in the current BCB offering.

>or use the huge number of opensource libs, that will compile with msvc.

There is no indication of that. Personally, I think the real fault is in
the open-source developers for not writing BCB-compatible code in the
first
place. Borland has been in the C++ market for a long time, yet everyone
ignores Borland.

Borland themselves ignored us until here recently.
With this latest soap opera from Borland, you can bet that support for
Borland compatibility will really drop off.
To me it would seem like a waste of time to try to support something that
management themselves "were" unsure they want to support.