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Re: What is the real story on BCB?


2005-11-23 07:13:08 AM
cppbuilder26
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Because it is often said about Delphi that it promotes bad RAD-induced
habits, and not nearly so often about C++. I only wanted to show you that
Delphi developers are well aware of good OO design.
Maybe but I still have a dentist appointment tomorrow and I'm
holding you personally responsible. <g>
 
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
Quote
>The closest I have come to getting this to work is through Multiple
>Inheritance.

Eeeeew! <g>
What's your problem?
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

At 00:13:08, 23.11.2005, Duane Hebert wrote:
Quote

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:xn0ea21p41yvqnt00f-velthuis@www.teamb.com...

>Because it is often said about Delphi that it promotes bad RAD-induced
>habits, and not nearly so often about C++. I only wanted to show you
>that Delphi developers are well aware of good OO design.

Maybe but I still have a dentist appointment tomorrow and I'm
holding you personally responsible. <g>
Only if you had an appointment in my clinic. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism and polls and
principles, come and join this campaign." -- George W. Bush
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

At 00:13:25, 23.11.2005, Thomas Maeder [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:

>>The closest I have come to getting this to work is through Multiple
>>Inheritance.
>
>Eeeeew! <g>

What's your problem?
I have a lot of problems, currently. I don't want to bother people here
with them. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S
relativity." -- Albert Einstein
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
Quote
At 22:59:20, 22.11.2005, Dennis Jones wrote:

>Maybe us C++ programmers are too good for oodesign discussion (Ha, yeah,
>that's it!).

As I said as well. You C++ people (think you) know it all. <g>
We are fortunate to have a lot of books available when we stick to
standardized C++. Delphi folks are more isolated in that way, and
need to stick together a little more, I think.
--
Chris (TeamB);
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

At 00:26:40, 23.11.2005, Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:

>At 22:59:20, 22.11.2005, Dennis Jones wrote:
>
>>Maybe us C++ programmers are too good for oodesign discussion (Ha,
yeah,>>that's it!).
>
>As I said as well. You C++ people (think you) know it all. <g>

We are fortunate to have a lot of books available when we stick to
standardized C++. Delphi folks are more isolated in that way, and
need to stick together a little more, I think.
Sure. But BCB is often not used in a pure C++ way. It is used as the C++
equivalent of Delphi.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

Dennis Jones wrote:
Quote
"Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

>"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:
>
>
>>Or perhaps that some C++ programmers saw RAD as a toy, promoting bad
>>coding habits.
>
>You mean like a proliferation of global variables and mixing
>application logic with the presentation layer?


Begin sermon:

I don't know about the proliferation of global variables (with the exception
of form objects, which are very easily removed), but there is no doubt that
RAD development encourages business logic to be very tightly coupled to the
GUI code.
This is not necessarily true. First of all their are plenty of
non-visual RAD components that can be developed, whether in C++ Builder,
.NET, Java with Javabeans, or whatever environment supports RAD
programming. These non-visual components are not GUI components.
Secondly the VCL provides data modules for putting non-visual components
and for separating GUI from data. Other RAD environments may have a
similar concept. Thirdly the presence of RAD does not keep any
programmer from developing just normal C++ ( C#, Java ) classes for
manipulating data, and adding these to data modules or just using them
on thweir own.
Just because many programmers who do not think deeply about program
design freely mix/tie RAD forms with non-visual components and data does
not mean that RAD is bad in any way.
Borland's failure to attract C++ programmers has nothing to do with RAD.
Should one say that .NET is a programming failure because MS has
incorporated RAD in it ? Let's be real. Borland has largely failed to
attract more C++ programmers to C++ Builder because of their own failings.
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

"Edward Diener" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Dennis Jones wrote:
>Begin sermon:
>
>I don't know about the proliferation of global variables (with the
exception
>of form objects, which are very easily removed), but there is no doubt
that
>RAD development encourages business logic to be very tightly coupled to
the
>GUI code.

This is not necessarily true. First of all their are plenty of
non-visual RAD components that can be developed...
Okay, I should have been more specific. You're right...not all RAD is bad,
but for visual components, the "two-way" mechanism that provides the
connection between code and design-time forms certainly "encourages" (note
that I never said, "enforces") a tightly-coupled design by making it all too
easy to insert business logic right there and then.
And while this might be more true for the less experienced, even experienced
developers will often do things the "easy way" just to get something done
quickly, many times telling themselves that they will go back and refactor
the code later, which of course (almost) never happens because the schedule
won't permit it, or they become critical path, or the boss says, "cool, ship
it!", or whatever.
On the other hand, as someone else pointed out earlier today, this same
"two-way" mechanism does provide the means for prototyping very quickly,
which of course was one of the major goals for RAD in the first place. So,
I suppose it's both a blessing and a curse.
- Dennis
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] ha scritto:
Quote
As Allen Bauer said, Ebony and Ivory were D3 and BCB3, not BCB1 and D2. I
have no idea how D2 was codenamed (or BCB1, actually).
Code name of BCB1: Bravo
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

At 08:37:19, 23.11.2005, Carmelo Viavattene wrote:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] ha scritto:

>As Allen Bauer said, Ebony and Ivory were D3 and BCB3, not BCB1 and
>D2. I have no idea how D2 was codenamed (or BCB1, actually).

Code name of BCB1: Bravo
Thanks!
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

Rudy Velthuis wrote:
Quote
>At 00:34:55, 19.11.2005, Dennis Jones wrote:
>
>there is no doubt in my mind that it once was.

Oh, that could very well be, indeed.
Please untrim your quotes! That was much too difficult
to go back and find the context of the text to which you
replied! <VBG>Perhaps I should be using XanaNews,
instead?!
May I suggest:
Quote
...while it <BCB>might not be a "second rate product"
today, there is no doubt in my mind that it once was.
 

Re:Re: What is the real story on BCB?

At 16:24:07, 24.11.2005, Fishface wrote:
Quote
Please untrim your quotes! That was much too difficult
to go back and find the context of the text to which you
replied! <VBG>Perhaps I should be using XanaNews,
instead?!
OMG! This is the first time someone asks me to quote more. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"We should leave our minds open, but not so open that our brains fall
out." -- Alan Ross Anderson