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... let me count the ways ...

How do I hate Builder?  Let me count the ways.

I hate that it forces me to use VCL.
I hate that it automatically updates the include path to something it
doesn't like.
I hate that it insists on adding a folder to the include path I do not need
there.
I hate that it won't tell me what file it was compiling when it finds a
problem in a header file.
I hate that it won't let me name my dll 85AGA3NX19.
I hate that it reserves the .cpp file of the same name as the program for
itself.
I hate that it forces me to use .h files instead of .hpp files.
I hate that I cannot group related files together and set a local definition
and include path.

 

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
"Greg Brewer" <nospam.g...@brewer.net> wrote in message

news:94kc9g$fcr9@bornews.inprise.com...

Quote
> How do I hate Builder?  Let me count the ways.

> I hate that it forces me to use VCL.
> I hate that it automatically updates the include path to something it
> doesn't like.
> I hate that it insists on adding a folder to the include path I do not
need
> there.
> I hate that it won't tell me what file it was compiling when it finds a
> problem in a header file.
> I hate that it won't let me name my dll 85AGA3NX19.
> I hate that it reserves the .cpp file of the same name as the program for
> itself.
> I hate that it forces me to use .h files instead of .hpp files.
> I hate that I cannot group related files together and set a local
definition
> and include path.

Who's forcing you to use the C++ Builder IDE?  You should be able to use the
command-line tools to do everything you want.  There are also a number of
other Win32 development tools, each with their own advantages &
disdvantages.

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
> How do I hate Builder?  Let me count the ways.

Use VC++.

Larry.

Re:... let me count the ways ...


As bad as Builder is, VC++ is worse!

Greg

Quote
"Larry P." <NoS...@NoWhere.com> wrote in message news:3a6dd022_1@dnews...
> > How do I hate Builder?  Let me count the ways.
> Use VC++.
> Larry.

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
> I hate that it forces me to use VCL.

You don't have to use VCL. You can use MFC, OWL or even "bare metal" it
with straight Win32 code. Have a day out there.

Quote
> I hate that it automatically updates the include path to something it
> doesn't like.

It does want to do that, doesn't it? I just keep removing them.

Quote
> I hate that it won't tell me what file it was compiling when it finds a
> problem in a header file.

You just have to watch the compilation progress window. Compiler error
messages have never told this info.

Quote
> I hate that it won't let me name my dll 85AGA3NX19.

Why not?

Quote
> I hate that it forces me to use .h files instead of .hpp files.

You can use .hpp files.

+=====================================================+
| Jonathan Arnold (mailto:jdarn...@buddydog.org)      |
|         Comprehensive C++Builder link site:         |
| http://www.buddydog.org/C++Builder/c++builder.html  |
+=====================================================+

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
"Jonathan Arnold" <jdarn...@buddydog.org> wrote in message

news:3A6DF232.B9CCC67C@buddydog.org...

Quote
> > I hate that it forces me to use VCL.
> You don't have to use VCL. You can use MFC, OWL or even "bare metal" it
> with straight Win32 code. Have a day out there.

Sounds good but how?

Quote
> > I hate that it automatically updates the include path to something it
> > doesn't like.
> It does want to do that, doesn't it? I just keep removing them.

That proved futile.  It seems to work ok if I move them to the bottom.

Quote
> > I hate that it won't tell me what file it was compiling when it finds a
> > problem in a header file.
> You just have to watch the compilation progress window. Compiler error
> messages have never told this info.

That takes quicker eyes than mine.  The best I could do is compare the .obj
files produced with the list of files in the project.  I've been using
Borland compilers since 2.0 and it has always been clear what file was being
compiled.  In 5.1 & 5.2, the message window displayed the name of the file
compiled along with error messages for it.  Double click on it and it would
actually bring up the .cpp file in an editor window.

Quote
> > I hate that it won't let me name my dll 85AGA3NX19.
> Why not?

beats me.  You try create a dll with that name.  Perhaps its a VCL problem.
I suspect that Builder is managing the dll by using a variable name and the
variable name is the same as the dll file name.  So the dll file name must
be a legal C variable name.  If you can get it to work, I would love to know
how.

Quote
> > I hate that it forces me to use .h files instead of .hpp files.
> You can use .hpp files.

Some generated header files use .h extensions.  You cannot change that.  I
prefer to use .hpp for C++ header files because it makes it clear that they
are C++ headers and not C headers.  Also, I frequently work with the files
with tools where it is much easier to use *.?pp to pull in all source files.

Greg Brewer

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
> As bad as Builder is, VC++ is worse!

> Greg

I disagree.  I have used it since the first version and still do.  It's just
not as "visual" as it's competition.  Sure is less buggy.

Larry.

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
> > > I hate that it forces me to use VCL.
> > You don't have to use VCL. You can use MFC, OWL or even "bare metal" it
> > with straight Win32 code. Have a day out there.
> Sounds good but how?

New....,
then use the MFC Wizard, OWL Wizard, or the Console wizard respectively.

Quote
> > > I hate that it won't tell me what file it was compiling when it finds a
> > > problem in a header file.
> > You just have to watch the compilation progress window. Compiler error
> > messages have never told this info.
> That takes quicker eyes than mine.  The best I could do is compare the .obj

Just do a remake and then the only file it tries to compile will be the
broken one.

Quote
> > > I hate that it won't let me name my dll 85AGA3NX19.
> > Why not?
> beats me.  You try create a dll with that name.  Perhaps its a VCL problem.

Why, it's an illegal identifier. Weird.

Quote
> > > I hate that it forces me to use .h files instead of .hpp files.
> > You can use .hpp files.
> Some generated header files use .h extensions.  You cannot change that.  I

But why can't you then rename them?

+====================================================+
| Jonathan Arnold (mailto:jdarn...@buddydog.org)     |
| Havas Interactive             HyperStudio Engineer |
| http://www.buddydog.org http://www.hyperstudio.com |
+====================================================+

A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured
and then quietly {*word*241}d. - Barnett{*word*19}s

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
"Jonathan Arnold" <jdarn...@buddydog.org> wrote in message

news:3A6DFEAD.67EA7699@buddydog.org...

Quote
> > > > I hate that it forces me to use VCL.
> > > You don't have to use VCL. You can use MFC, OWL or even "bare metal"
it
> > > with straight Win32 code. Have a day out there.
> > Sounds good but how?
> New....,
> then use the MFC Wizard, OWL Wizard, or the Console wizard respectively.

Doesn't Console wizard create a console application?  I'm creating a .DLL
that has no use for MFC, OWL, or VCL!

Quote
> > > > I hate that it won't tell me what file it was compiling when it
finds a
> > > > problem in a header file.
> > > You just have to watch the compilation progress window. Compiler error
> > > messages have never told this info.
> > That takes quicker eyes than mine.  The best I could do is compare the
.obj

> Just do a remake and then the only file it tries to compile will be the
> broken one.

I did.  It goes to "Done: There are errors" quicker than I can read the name
of the file.

Quote
> > > > I hate that it won't let me name my dll 85AGA3NX19.
> > > Why not?
> > beats me.  You try create a dll with that name.  Perhaps its a VCL
problem.
> Why, it's an illegal identifier. Weird.
> > > > I hate that it forces me to use .h files instead of .hpp files.
> > > You can use .hpp files.
> > Some generated header files use .h extensions.  You cannot change that.
I
> But why can't you then rename them?

I have not been able to find anywhere in Builder where you can rename.  And
if I rename it with explorer, I get an error from Builder that it can't find
the file.

Greg

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Re:... let me count the ways ...


Greg,

Quote
> > > I hate that it won't let me name my dll 85AGA3NX19.
> > Why not?
> beats me.  You try create a dll with that name.  Perhaps its a VCL
> problem.  I suspect that Builder is managing the dll by using a variable
> name and the variable name is the same as the dll file name.  So the
> dll file name mustbe a legal C variable name.

Try creating a project with a space in it.  Builder won't let you do that as
well.  My guess is there isn't some internal variable but the name is
checked for validity using the same routine that checks variable names
(incorrectly and unnecessarily).

Quote
> > > I hate that it forces me to use .h files instead of .hpp files.
> > You can use .hpp files.
> Some generated header files use .h extensions.  You cannot change that.  I
> prefer to use .hpp for C++ header files because it makes it clear that
they
> are C++ headers and not C headers.  Also, I frequently work with the files
> with tools where it is much easier to use *.?pp to pull in all source

files.

When you program in any environment or API you should use the imposed
standards.  HPP in Builder means Delphi converted header file.  In any case
though, Builder forces the unit files (Forms, DataModules, etc) to have a
header with a H extension and will *not* accept HPP as the header file for
the module.  You are correct here.

Quote
> > > I hate that it reserves the .cpp file of the same name as
> > > the program for itself.

Why hate this?  It might be nice if Builder would let you tell it the main
source file to use but in my view that's just adding one more thing to go
wrong.  Just let Builder do its thing and use different filenames for your
source.  It actually makes more sense that way anyhow.  My naming scheme
goes something like this:
    Project:    NewTest
    Main form:    ntMain
    Sub form:    ntSubForm
I find I never have a reason to use the project name for a new source file.
Unless I'm making a one module console or DLL project ... but then, with
BCB5, you have the ability to use the project filename in those instances.

My overview of your message is that you are upset that you can't use the
standards you've created for yourself before using Builder.  That's not a
reason to *hate* it though.  I looked at things the same way as you when I
first came to Builder (3 years ago).  Once I stopped fighting it my life
became a lot easier and I was able to get much more out of Builder.

- Clayton

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Greg,

Quote
> Doesn't Console wizard create a console application?  I'm creating a .DLL
> that has no use for MFC, OWL, or VCL!

Try "New | DLL Wizard" and uncheck "Use VCL".

- Clayton

Re:... let me count the ways ...


On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:05:54 -0500, Jonathan Arnold

Quote
<jdarn...@buddydog.org> wrote:
>> I hate that it won't tell me what file it was compiling when it finds a
>> problem in a header file.

>You just have to watch the compilation progress window. Compiler error
>messages have never told this info.

Under Project/Options/Compiler/Compiling, check the box labeled
"Extended error information" and recompile. This feature was added
with C++Builder 5, but is off by default, though I can't imagine why.
Error messages will tell you a lot more information regarding the
state of the compiler when this setting is on.

Vincent Drake
Borland Technical Support

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Yeah, right! (Sarcasm!)

Michael

Quote
"Larry P." <NoS...@NoWhere.com> wrote in message news:3a6dfe7b$1_1@dnews...
> > As bad as Builder is, VC++ is worse!

> > Greg

> I disagree.  I have used it since the first version and still do.  It's
just
> not as "visual" as it's competition.  Sure is less buggy.

> Larry.

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
> Doesn't Console wizard create a console application?  I'm creating a .DLL
> that has no use for MFC, OWL, or VCL!

It creates a non-vcl, pretty straight, application, that you can do with
as you please.

Quote
> > > Some generated header files use .h extensions.  You cannot change that.
> > But why can't you then rename them?
> I have not been able to find anywhere in Builder where you can rename.  And
> if I rename it with explorer, I get an error from Builder that it can't find
> the file.

Well, you'll also have to go into the source file that includes them and
change the file it includes, but then you're all set.

+====================================================+
| Jonathan Arnold (mailto:jdarn...@buddydog.org)     |
| Havas Interactive             HyperStudio Engineer |
| http://www.buddydog.org http://www.hyperstudio.com |
+====================================================+

A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured
and then quietly {*word*241}d. - Barnett{*word*19}s

Re:... let me count the ways ...


Quote
> Yeah, right! (Sarcasm!)

> Michael

I'm not going to argue facts with you, especially with a reply like yours.
Go to microsoft.public.vc.ide_general and compare it to this newsgroup.  The
groups will speak for themselves.

Anybody that is not being sentimental (which makes no sense as it is just a
damn tool) over which compiler they use will agree.  VC++ IS less buggy, and
it also has four service packs that did it.  BCB has one and needs at least
one more.  One more that would fix some IDE issues would be nice since the
first one did not.

Larry.

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