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Adone Borione
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Adone Borione
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Will Java die in the near future?2003-07-23 08:18:49 AM jbuilder14 Microsoft is managing and putting tons of money in convincing people to convert Java programs to C#. What is the real trend...? , is it true, as people at Microsoft says, that Java's days are numbered? What is doing Sun in order to fight against this (macabre) plan of Microsoft? Personally I hate a future where Microsoft' logo will even be in the box of my favorite cereal. Why Sun is not making bigger efforts to popularize others OSs that could give consumers other alternatives than the (omnipresent) windows? |
John McGrath [TeamB]
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2003-07-23 09:22:06 AM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?
On 7/22/2003 at 8:18:49 PM, Adone Borione wrote:
This would be more appropriate for the non-technical newsgroup. Follow-ups set. QuoteSubject: Will Java die in the near future? Regards, John McGrath [TeamB] |
Phil Shrimpton
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2003-07-23 09:46:11 PM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?
In article <3f1dd435$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, Adone Borione says...
Hi, QuoteMicrosoft is managing and putting tons of money in convincing people to Phil {smallsort} |
Dennis Landi
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2003-07-23 09:51:24 PM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?
"Phil Shrimpton" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
QuoteI know of zero people moving their code from Java to C#, but I do know |
pnichols
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2003-07-24 12:05:59 AM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?
John McGrath [TeamB] wrote:
QuoteOn 7/22/2003 at 8:18:49 PM, Adone Borione wrote: NET offers no XPlatform. Some may refer to Mono, but Mono is not complete and we have no garantee that it will be compatible with MS' version if or when it is complete. We also do not know if MS will allow it to be compatible. NET has no n tier model. If you want n tier, you are going to have to resort to Web Services or COM+/DCOM. NET can only run on a very limited number of devices. If it is not WinTel or WinCE compatible, forget it. NET is truly an option ONLY for those who use MS only operating systems exclusively. Since that marketshare is stagnant at best (Server side losing market share rapidly), there is no way I can see anyone moving from Java to NET. Enterprise IT shops use a host of different servers and OS for their daily operations. NEt is not an option here, Java is. Did I mention NET is no where near as mature as Java <G>, and is truly only supported by MS? |
Andr?Kuiper
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2003-07-24 01:23:37 AM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?QuoteNET offers no XPlatform. Some may refer to Mono, but Mono is not complete |
Rich Wilkman
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2003-07-24 09:31:11 AM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?
That's easy. They're converting because some schmuck in upper
management went to an MS sponsored event and got all happy and came back and said "we're moving". :) -Rich pnichols wrote: QuoteSecond that!! Why would anyone move from Java to C# or NET, would be my |
Jeroen Wenting
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2003-07-25 03:28:25 PM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?QuoteMicrosoft is managing and putting tons of money in convincing people to It's called marketing... QuoteWhat is the real trend...? , is it true, as people at Microsoft says, that Quote(macabre) plan of Microsoft? Personally I hate a future where Microsoft' Heard yesterday that Microsoft is planning to hire another 5000 staff for their research and product development divisions, Sun is running a big loss and may lay off a lot of people. Looks like making money is good for a company? Quotelogo will even be in the box of my favorite cereal. Why Sun is not making Quotebigger efforts to popularize others OSs that could give consumers other It gained supremacy based on price/quality equation as well as good marketing and ease of use. If you check the alternatives you see OS/2 (old, doesn't work well with modern hardware, no longer maintained, even the manufacturer abandoned it...), Solaris (hard to use, poor hardware support), and Linux (hard to use if you're not a techie, relatively unstable unless you are a techie and can tweak it a lot). None of these platforms can also run most if not all software available for Windows (which became available for Windows because it was the most lucrative market which in turn helped increase the market share of Windows). OS/2 can run most 16 bit DOS and Windows applications, showing its age, Solaris might be able to read some Windows/DOS document formats, Linux can emulate a partial Windows environment but it's slow and unstable, it can also read some DOS/Windows document formats. You want a competitor to Windows that is successful against Windows you need these things: - equal or better stability and performance yet lower price - can run all Windows applications (or if it can't run something at least read and write its output and offer a viable alternative that's as complete and easy to use) as reliably and with similar performance to Windows. This includes not just business applications but games as well. - as easy to use or more so for the non-technical user (preferably offering a desktop environment that's similar enough that they can get started without needing retraining). OS/2 offered (at the time) the 2nd and 3rd. Linux offers the first and bits of the 2nd and 3rd but not enough for the average or below-average user. Solaris offers none (except maybe parts of the first). MacOS I leave out because it requires different hardware, and both hardware and software are far more expensive making it no more than a niche market. There are likely more criteria... |
pnichols
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2003-07-26 09:16:40 AM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?
Rich Wilkman wrote:
QuoteThat's easy. They're converting because some schmuck in upper of the services they needed from Oracle were only accessible through Java. So I asked them the normal and natural question, "If Oracle and Oracle services are so crtitical to your application, why don't you do it all in Java, instead of having to map Java to the NET classes through Web Services or some other type of middleware? Is there something NET provides that Java doesn't?" The answer was they were a Microsoft shop and they are committed to MS solutions. Therefore Java will be used only when they have to use it. At all other times, MS and NET only. I then asked, "but wouldn't adding more layers to the application, lead to more chances of failure and naturally complicate the layers and tiers in the development process?" I never got a good answer after this one. Needless to say, I did not get the job, nor did I want it. <G>> |
Denis Sarrazin
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2003-07-26 07:10:38 PM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?
The advantage for them is that they don't need in-house expertise in many
different tools but can specialize in a single tool/language. Whether that is a valid argument or not is something I'm not sure about. I can certainly see some advantages in becoming really good at a single tool/language, be it .NET or Java. It would take longer to become as good at both (more stuff to learn). It also would cost the company less if they only need to buy one set of tools and pay for training in a single set of tool/language. On the other hand, my knowledge of C++ and Java and Delphi certainly helps me design better solutions in general. I've worked with people whose only expertise was VB and their work in VB.NET/ASP.NET is not very mature (particularly the way they design their code -- or rather, lack of design).. They simply had never done oop or done software design before so they just put all of their functions together, make inappropriate use of inheritence, don't use many features of the language, don't use patterns, etc. Their business design is quite good, though (they really know the business side of things), but their code could be a lot better (imo). At the end of the day, it is the people who pay the money that feel they need to make the decisions, even though they typically are the ones that know the least about all the factors that should go into making these decisions. The world according to Dilbert :-) -D On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:16:40 -0400, pnichols <paul@ comp.net>wrote: QuoteThe answer was they were a Microsoft shop and they are committed to MS |
pnichols
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2003-08-09 12:16:35 AM
Re:Will Java die in the near future?
Denis Sarrazin wrote:
QuoteI can certainly see some advantages in becoming really good at a single QuoteOn the other hand, my knowledge of C++ and Java and Delphi certainly helps provided a BUSINESS REASON or a use case where NET was needed, then they would have answered the question. Replying that they are a Microsoft shop and used MS solutions, did not serve in providing an adequate answer. They also wanted to use Java for Oracle integration. That necessarily complicates the process, so I would think they could have provided rationale on why this was a good thing or driven by requirements. QuoteAt the end of the day, it is the people who pay the money that feel they |