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Re: So I guess the free Foundation version of JBuilder is not goingto


2006-04-08 03:51:50 AM
jbuilder15
It's 600 mb of stuff I don't need. I just need Foundation. Why would I bother with the complexity and difficulties involved with downloading 600 mb of stuff I don't need.
If you like tasks like that -- enjoy! But I don't. If I could use the whole thing that would be another story. But I have no use for the whole thing.
Paul Furbacher [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
dingfelder wrote:

>Given that eclipse has the highest market share (more than 2 times
>their closest rival, which is jbuilder) and borland is adopting the
>eclipse engine for the upcoming jbuilder version, I think it is an
>obvious choice.
>
>Personally, I would rather stick with Borland and hope the suits
>make a marketing change on this decision.


JBuilder on Eclipse, a.k.a., Peloton, is not going to be Eclipse,
at least from what I can decipher from the announcements made thus
far. So switching to Eclipse doesn't necessarily get you ready for
Peloton.

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about the size of the Enterprise
Evaluation download. Yes, it's nearly 700 MB, but I regularly
download tools from various places that are in that ballpark.
(Apple's Dev Tools come to mind.)

If the issue is bandwidth, are you saying you don't know some
friend, neighbor, {*word*249}age son or daughter's friend, who has
high-speed access? In this day and age, that's an improbable
story.

I'd say the old adage applies:

If there's a will, there's a way.


 
 

Re:Re: So I guess the free Foundation version of JBuilder is not goingto

Do you mean there is no broadband in your area (Mammoth Lakes, if I am
not mistaken)? I often drive close to you, but on another side of the
hills and the roads are closed now :-). This is what I found:
- Eclipse 103MB (without Java)
download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops/R-3.1.2-200601181600/index.php
- NetBeans 132.84MB (with Java)
java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download-netbeans-50.html
Still big... Google found this site:
www.thefreecountry.com/programming/javaide.shtml
If disk space is an issue see that:
shop4.outpost.com/product/4116853
- Alexey.
--
Alexey N. Solofnenko
home: trelony.cjb.net/
 

Re:Re: So I guess the free Foundation version of JBuilder is not goingto

Alexey N. Solofnenko wrote:
Quote
Do you mean there is no broadband in your area (Mammoth Lakes, if I am
not mistaken)? I often drive close to you, but on another side of the
hills and the roads are closed now :-). This is what I found:

- Eclipse 103MB (without Java)
download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops/R-3.1.2-200601181600/index.php


- NetBeans 132.84MB (with Java)
java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download-netbeans-50.html

Still big... Google found this site:
www.thefreecountry.com/programming/javaide.shtml

If disk space is an issue see that:
shop4.outpost.com/product/4116853

- Alexey.

I have broadband -- slow broadband. I think it's 100 kbps or 13 kbytes a sec.
600 megbytes would take a while.
Plus, I don't want the headaches involved in managing all those unnessary files and dll's and god knows what else.
And yes the passes are all closed. We have something like 25 feet of snow on the crest. We've had 50 feet of snow this winter.
I'm reluctant to get into Eclipse. I'm just not in the mood to learn another IDE. I'm getting more lazy as I get older. It's hard to justify learning new stuff just because someone else decides that I have to do things differently. I kind of resent that.
JBuilder I'm comfortable with and I'd like to stay with it. I hope enlightenment finds Borland management.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: So I guess the free Foundation version of JBuilder is not goingto

The point is not *IF* I can download something that big.
I live in New Zealand, and do have DSL. Bandwidth on dialup accounts is limited here though to between 500megs and 1 gig per month, so that once you use up your amt for the month, the speed is downgraded to dialup speeds. :( Knowing that, I very much am in favor of not downloading big things that I do not need.
Having said that, even if I was on dialup, I *could* get it downloaded eventually, or worst case, I assume I could get Borland sales to send me a CD if that was the issue.
The problem for me really is not only the download size, it is the combination of several things:
1. Large download size
2. Largeer install footprint - the enterprise portion does not go away after a month, it just sits there and is non-functional, wasting space
3. Increased complexity - I do not want to be bothered with features I do not need or want.
4. Difficulty of evaluation - I personally purchased Developer 2005, and would consider buying Developer 2006 if I could try it first. I do not want to install the enterprise version and get used to some features only to find out that they were NOT part of the developer version. (This is the biggest issue for me) Likewise if I were just wanting the foundation version, I would not want to get used to the features that require me to purchase it. I fully understand that this was certainly consiously done to make more sales, people get used to a feature that then becomes disabled, so they spend $ to upgrade.
5. Increased hardware requirements - nobody has published any findings that IO have seen for (or against) this idea but my suspicion is that the disabled enterprise version takes more ram or horsepower to run than does the real foundation version
6. Change in previous pattern - developers are human (most of the time) and they get used to the way things are. It is upsetting when a company makes a (marketing?) decision that effects many people, without telling people why. I have read a large number of posts (here and elsewhere) where people say they are quite dissapointed with this change in policy. Hopefully Borland has not lost too many people forever by this decision, or if they have, hopefully they made a good profit on some people who stayed.
 

Re:Re: So I guess the free Foundation version of JBuilder is not goingto

dingfelder wrote:
Quote
The point is not *IF* I can download something that big.

I live in New Zealand, and do have DSL.
Like I said...