Board index » jbuilder » JDBC and BDE

JDBC and BDE


2005-01-15 02:01:06 AM
jbuilder24
Hello,
A wierd problem but here goes. Is there any way to use BDE with JDBC ?
The only way possible I could think of was
JDBC->ODBC->BDE . Certainly not the best of ways to work but nothing much
you can do when the so called "managers" decide to promise something not
practical.
Help will be appriciated.
Regards.
 
 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Ouch!!!
Please, please tell me that your manager hasn't promised that to a client...
Anyway, the short answer is no. Since JDBC was designed to go directly to
the database, I can't imagine anyone in Borland (or anywhere else for that
matter) thinking that the mapping from one abstract access layer to another
would be worthwhile. I'm not even sure what the current status of BDE is
anymore as I'm out of the loop on the Windows family of products.
--
Kevin Dean [TeamB]
Check out our latest white papers at
www.datadevelopment.com/papers/index.html
BladeNET Scores With Borland Enterprise Tools
Team Development with JBuilder and Borland Enterprise Server
Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
www.datadevelopment.com/
"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Hello,
A wierd problem but here goes. Is there any way to use BDE with JDBC ?
The only way possible I could think of was
JDBC->ODBC->BDE . Certainly not the best of ways to work but nothing much
you can do when the so called "managers" decide to promise something not
practical.
Help will be appriciated.
Regards.


 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Unfortunatly it has been told to the client. I can only see one work around
that. I guess that would be finding a correct dBase JDBC driver that
respects BDE indexes. I call them BDE indexes since upon close inspection
those MDX index are no where near the format defined for xBase apps.
Few drivers that I have used were not doing that so as for now I am stuck.
It does not matter what sort of business layer you are using, be it
Hibernate, DataExpress or EJBs unless and untill there is a suitable driver
available that can work on the data used in parallel with BDE/Delphi based
apps its a problem.
I will be glad if someone guide me through this or more importantly make me
believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Rgds.
"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Ouch!!!

Please, please tell me that your manager hasn't promised that to a
client...

Anyway, the short answer is no. Since JDBC was designed to go directly to
the database, I can't imagine anyone in Borland (or anywhere else for that
matter) thinking that the mapping from one abstract access layer to
another
would be worthwhile. I'm not even sure what the current status of BDE is
anymore as I'm out of the loop on the Windows family of products.

--
Kevin Dean [TeamB]

Check out our latest white papers at
www.datadevelopment.com/papers/index.html

BladeNET Scores With Borland Enterprise Tools
Team Development with JBuilder and Borland Enterprise Server

Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
www.datadevelopment.com/

"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:41e808de$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>Hello,
>A wierd problem but here goes. Is there any way to use BDE with JDBC ?
>The only way possible I could think of was
>JDBC->ODBC->BDE . Certainly not the best of ways to work but nothing
much
>you can do when the so called "managers" decide to promise something not
>practical.
>Help will be appriciated.
>Regards.
>
>


 

{smallsort}

Re:JDBC and BDE

Knopfler wrote:
Quote
Hello,
A wierd problem but here goes. Is there any way to use BDE with JDBC ?
The only way possible I could think of was
JDBC->ODBC->BDE . Certainly not the best of ways to work but nothing much
you can do when the so called "managers" decide to promise something not
practical.
Help will be appriciated.
Regards.


BDE is, AFAIK, an API, not a database. What BDE database specifically
are we talking about here?
--
Regards,
Lori Olson [TeamB]
------------
Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the
newsgroups and the FAQ-O-Matic before posting your next
question.
Google Advanced Newsgroup Search
www.google.ca/advanced_group_search
Other Newsgroup Searches:
www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html
Joi Ellis's FAQ-O-Matic:
www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html
 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Well, you have my sympathy. I've also been victim of the over-enthusiastic
sales pitch ("Yes, of course we can do it! And for almost nothing! And by
tomorrow!").
Are there any alternatives that you can consider? Is this a reporting tool
and if so, will a data export do? Are you mimicking transactions in the
Delphi application? If so, what about exposing some of the Delphi
functionality as a web service instead?
I'm surprised to see you saying that the MDX files are not compatible; AFAIK
they should be. What about changing the Delphi application to use BDE->ODBC
and then using JDBC->ODBC so that both BDE and JDBC are going through a
common interface?
--
Kevin Dean [TeamB]
Check out our latest white papers at
www.datadevelopment.com/papers/index.html
BladeNET Scores With Borland Enterprise Tools
Team Development with JBuilder and Borland Enterprise Server
Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
www.datadevelopment.com/
"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Unfortunatly it has been told to the client. I can only see one work
around
that. I guess that would be finding a correct dBase JDBC driver that
respects BDE indexes. I call them BDE indexes since upon close inspection
those MDX index are no where near the format defined for xBase apps.
Few drivers that I have used were not doing that so as for now I am stuck.
It does not matter what sort of business layer you are using, be it
Hibernate, DataExpress or EJBs unless and untill there is a suitable
driver
available that can work on the data used in parallel with BDE/Delphi based
apps its a problem.

I will be glad if someone guide me through this or more importantly make
me
believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Rgds.
 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Thank you guys for your responses.
Kevin: I really wish it was a reporting tool but its not. Its an application
written in Delphi and dBase 4 with BDE being the database engine. All of
the suggestions that you came up with were great but with one problem. Due
to the security/clearence/who knows what standards of US Gov I dont have any
piece of code available. The idea of this project is to convert the existing
app into java,j2ee and all those nice words that non-computer people love to
use. There is zero documentation available for us to see. All we have is a
running app and the RFP which contains a waterfall approach towards non-OOAD
done in 1989 or 90.
Pretty lose lose situation. In other words. "Sorry son you cannot have the
code to our existing app"
Waiting for your reply.
Lori:
Its dBase IV. I know BDE is not a database :). I dont really know if i would
call dBase a Database. Help will be appriciated.
World would be such a better place IF technocrats were part of the board of
directors, executive decision team etc..
"Lori M Olson [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Knopfler wrote:

>Hello,
>A wierd problem but here goes. Is there any way to use BDE with JDBC ?
>The only way possible I could think of was
>JDBC->ODBC->BDE . Certainly not the best of ways to work but nothing
much
>you can do when the so called "managers" decide to promise something not
>practical.
>Help will be appriciated.
>Regards.
>
>

BDE is, AFAIK, an API, not a database. What BDE database specifically
are we talking about here?

--

Regards,

Lori Olson [TeamB]

------------

Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the
newsgroups and the FAQ-O-Matic before posting your next
question.

Google Advanced Newsgroup Search
www.google.ca/advanced_group_search
Other Newsgroup Searches:
www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html
Joi Ellis's FAQ-O-Matic:
www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

 

Re:JDBC and BDE

And of course the RFP from 1989/1990 probably doesn't reflect the
compromises made during the initial development or any upgrades made since
that time. I'm assuming that this is a phased implementation so you can't
just stop using the old system and start using the new.
Quite frankly, yours is a project I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
The idea of taking an application developed when Windows 3.X was king,
rewriting it in the most modern environment available, and doing it in such
a way that the two can cooperatively access the same database would send me
running for the hills. I would honestly give your project zero chance of
success given those parameters.
Another thing that might kill this project (it pretty much destroyed a
project that I was called in to replace) is that the dBase locking mechanism
varies from vendor to vendor. The system I was replacing had some batch
processing code written using the CodeBase library and a user interface
written in dBase. The indexes were compatible but the locking mechanisms
were not, which means that there was absolutely nothing to prevent the batch
application and the user interface application from updating the same record
at the same time or, worse, updating the indexes at the same time, which
sent the whole thing squirrelly several times a day. The upshot of this is
that even if you find a Java library that seems to cooperate with BDE
there's absolutely no guarantee that it will do so under anything
approaching a heavy load.
Feel free to quote me on the above if it helps you with your boss.
--
Kevin Dean [TeamB]
Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
www.datadevelopment.com/
Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Thank you guys for your responses.

Kevin: I really wish it was a reporting tool but its not. Its an
application
written in Delphi and dBase 4 with BDE being the database engine. All of
the suggestions that you came up with were great but with one problem. Due
to the security/clearence/who knows what standards of US Gov I dont have
any
piece of code available. The idea of this project is to convert the
existing
app into java,j2ee and all those nice words that non-computer people love
to
use. There is zero documentation available for us to see. All we have is a
running app and the RFP which contains a waterfall approach towards
non-OOAD
done in 1989 or 90.
Pretty lose lose situation. In other words. "Sorry son you cannot have the
code to our existing app"
Waiting for your reply.

Lori:
Its dBase IV. I know BDE is not a database :). I dont really know if i
would
call dBase a Database. Help will be appriciated.


World would be such a better place IF technocrats were part of the board
of
directors, executive decision team etc..
 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Kevin:
I went into my director's office stating the technical problems
that are and will remain with this project and came out with a
blame of being too negative i.e. in my opinion a little practical. But thats off the topic for now.
Yes this is a phased implementation. I will state how it works just to give you all an over view. In simple this system forms a parent node to 3 other software systems ran by 3 different govt departments. Why are we not converting the leaf nodes first is purely related to how customer wants to go and our marketing team's lack of homework.
I agree with you over the risk assessment part. To be honest, I when first looked at it felt the same way. The only thing thats making me cling on to something is the fact that IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.
Lock issues are very important and can be looked at in a sequential fashion. Once we have a solution to update 2 different rows using old app and the new app in a same table. I am sure there will be a work around locks.
Right now I am looking for ideas, any idea or theory or perhaps an assumption.
Paul: As I stated its a phased implementation. Converting to something of the 21st century is rather not possible.
My apologies fellows, if I in any way am going off from Borland's DataExpress component/framework topic. I just thought this would be a good place to gather some information. Further a good read for the new developers and project managers.
Ideas and thoughts are welcome.
Regards.
"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
And of course the RFP from 1989/1990 probably doesn't reflect the
compromises made during the initial development or any upgrades made since
that time. I'm assuming that this is a phased implementation so you can't
just stop using the old system and start using the new.

Quite frankly, yours is a project I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
The idea of taking an application developed when Windows 3.X was king,
rewriting it in the most modern environment available, and doing it in such
a way that the two can cooperatively access the same database would send me
running for the hills. I would honestly give your project zero chance of
success given those parameters.

Another thing that might kill this project (it pretty much destroyed a
project that I was called in to replace) is that the dBase locking mechanism
varies from vendor to vendor. The system I was replacing had some batch
processing code written using the CodeBase library and a user interface
written in dBase. The indexes were compatible but the locking mechanisms
were not, which means that there was absolutely nothing to prevent the batch
application and the user interface application from updating the same record
at the same time or, worse, updating the indexes at the same time, which
sent the whole thing squirrelly several times a day. The upshot of this is
that even if you find a Java library that seems to cooperate with BDE
there's absolutely no guarantee that it will do so under anything
approaching a heavy load.

Feel free to quote me on the above if it helps you with your boss.
--
Kevin Dean [TeamB]
Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
www.datadevelopment.com/

Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html

"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:41e83a1c$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>Thank you guys for your responses.
>
>Kevin: I really wish it was a reporting tool but its not. Its an
>application
>written in Delphi and dBase 4 with BDE being the database engine. All of
>the suggestions that you came up with were great but with one problem. Due
>to the security/clearence/who knows what standards of US Gov I dont have
>any
>piece of code available. The idea of this project is to convert the
>existing
>app into java,j2ee and all those nice words that non-computer people love
>to
>use. There is zero documentation available for us to see. All we have is a
>running app and the RFP which contains a waterfall approach towards
>non-OOAD
>done in 1989 or 90.
>Pretty lose lose situation. In other words. "Sorry son you cannot have the
>code to our existing app"
>Waiting for your reply.
>
>Lori:
>Its dBase IV. I know BDE is not a database :). I dont really know if i
>would
>call dBase a Database. Help will be appriciated.
>
>
>World would be such a better place IF technocrats were part of the board
>of
>directors, executive decision team etc..


 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Quote
IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO
REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.
Actually, there's a very good reason why it cannot work with something new,
and that is economics. The number of developers who would conceivably
require a connection from a Java application to a proprietary Windows-based
API like the BDE is so ridiculously small as to be completely ignored; the
cost of developing such compatibility would far and away exceed the revenue
to be achieved from doing it. It's like saying you're going to develop a
new car but that you want it to be compatible with the engine from a Model T
just in case some customer has one lying around that they'd like to use.
Locking is not a trivial exercise, and if you don't have the source code for
the existing application, you have almost no hope of developing a compatible
locking mechanism in the Java side. Even if you had the source code for the
existing application, you probably wouldn't find any explicit locking code
therein as its all handled at the BDE level, and the source code for the BDE
is not available.
In my opinion, your project has failed before it has even begun and the
attitude of your director and the marketing team means that the blame will
be laid squarely at your feet. Good luck.
--
Kevin Dean [TeamB]
Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
www.datadevelopment.com/
Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote

Kevin:
I went into my director's office stating the technical problems
that are and will remain with this project and came out with a
blame of being too negative i.e. in my opinion a little practical. But
thats off the topic for now.
Yes this is a phased implementation. I will state how it works just to
give you all an over view. In simple this system forms a parent node to 3
other software systems ran by 3 different govt departments. Why are we not
converting the leaf nodes first is purely related to how customer wants to
go and our marketing team's lack of homework.

I agree with you over the risk assessment part. To be honest, I when first
looked at it felt the same way. The only thing thats making me cling on to
something is the fact that IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN
LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.

Lock issues are very important and can be looked at in a sequential
fashion. Once we have a solution to update 2 different rows using old app
and the new app in a same table. I am sure there will be a work around
locks.

Right now I am looking for ideas, any idea or theory or perhaps an
assumption.

Paul: As I stated its a phased implementation. Converting to something of
the 21st century is rather not possible.


My apologies fellows, if I in any way am going off from Borland's
DataExpress component/framework topic. I just thought this would be a good
place to gather some information. Further a good read for the new
developers and project managers.

Ideas and thoughts are welcome.

Regards.






"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
>And of course the RFP from 1989/1990 probably doesn't reflect the
>compromises made during the initial development or any upgrades made since
>that time. I'm assuming that this is a phased implementation so you can't
>just stop using the old system and start using the new.
>
>Quite frankly, yours is a project I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
>The idea of taking an application developed when Windows 3.X was king,
>rewriting it in the most modern environment available, and doing it in
>such
>a way that the two can cooperatively access the same database would send
>me
>running for the hills. I would honestly give your project zero chance of
>success given those parameters.
>
>Another thing that might kill this project (it pretty much destroyed a
>project that I was called in to replace) is that the dBase locking
>mechanism
>varies from vendor to vendor. The system I was replacing had some batch
>processing code written using the CodeBase library and a user interface
>written in dBase. The indexes were compatible but the locking mechanisms
>were not, which means that there was absolutely nothing to prevent the
>batch
>application and the user interface application from updating the same
>record
>at the same time or, worse, updating the indexes at the same time, which
>sent the whole thing squirrelly several times a day. The upshot of this
>is
>that even if you find a Java library that seems to cooperate with BDE
>there's absolutely no guarantee that it will do so under anything
>approaching a heavy load.
>
>Feel free to quote me on the above if it helps you with your boss.
>--
>Kevin Dean [TeamB]
>Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
>www.datadevelopment.com/
>
>Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
>info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
>
>"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>news:41e83a1c$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>Thank you guys for your responses.
>>
>>Kevin: I really wish it was a reporting tool but its not. Its an
>>application
>>written in Delphi and dBase 4 with BDE being the database engine. All
>>of
>>the suggestions that you came up with were great but with one problem.
>>Due
>>to the security/clearence/who knows what standards of US Gov I dont have
>>any
>>piece of code available. The idea of this project is to convert the
>>existing
>>app into java,j2ee and all those nice words that non-computer people
>>love
>>to
>>use. There is zero documentation available for us to see. All we have is
>>a
>>running app and the RFP which contains a waterfall approach towards
>>non-OOAD
>>done in 1989 or 90.
>>Pretty lose lose situation. In other words. "Sorry son you cannot have
>>the
>>code to our existing app"
>>Waiting for your reply.
>>
>>Lori:
>>Its dBase IV. I know BDE is not a database :). I dont really know if i
>>would
>>call dBase a Database. Help will be appriciated.
>>
>>
>>World would be such a better place IF technocrats were part of the board
>>of
>>directors, executive decision team etc..
>
>

 

Re:JDBC and BDE

"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Hello,
A wierd problem but here goes. Is there any way to use BDE with JDBC ?
The only way possible I could think of was
JDBC->ODBC->BDE . Certainly not the best of ways to work but nothing much
you can do when the so called "managers" decide to promise something not
practical.
Help will be appriciated.
Regards.

I do not know of any proprietary indices placed on a dBase format by the
BDE. I used the BDE up to 5.1, and never saw this. It sounds like they could
be using something like Clipper, instead of straight dBase.
Help me understand something here. If they want a J2EE application, why not
migrate the data to a 21st century database?
That could be done via a Delphi or C++ util that uses the Databases via the
BDE (unless like Kevin states, they are using some unknown third party
drivers). Why anyone would want to use an early model 20th century database
:( with a 21st century application, is beyond me.
As Kevin stated, you can quote me on this. This is not a smart idea, to say
the least.
 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Thank you gentlemen. Its proving to be a very complicated. I tried almost
everything I could. New library, calling BDE functions into java through
JNI, coming up with my own driver to connect and maintain indexes and few
other methods. Nothing seems to be working. Mapping the DLL works but as
kevin mentioned, under the higher stress level it fails.
Once again thank you TeamB members for the help.
Regards.
"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
>IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO
>REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.

Actually, there's a very good reason why it cannot work with something
new,
and that is economics. The number of developers who would conceivably
require a connection from a Java application to a proprietary
Windows-based
API like the BDE is so ridiculously small as to be completely ignored; the
cost of developing such compatibility would far and away exceed the
revenue
to be achieved from doing it. It's like saying you're going to develop a
new car but that you want it to be compatible with the engine from a Model
T
just in case some customer has one lying around that they'd like to use.

Locking is not a trivial exercise, and if you don't have the source code
for
the existing application, you have almost no hope of developing a
compatible
locking mechanism in the Java side. Even if you had the source code for
the
existing application, you probably wouldn't find any explicit locking code
therein as its all handled at the BDE level, and the source code for the
BDE
is not available.

In my opinion, your project has failed before it has even begun and the
attitude of your director and the marketing team means that the blame will
be laid squarely at your feet. Good luck.

--
Kevin Dean [TeamB]
Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
www.datadevelopment.com/

Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html

"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>
>Kevin:
>I went into my director's office stating the technical problems
>that are and will remain with this project and came out with a
>blame of being too negative i.e. in my opinion a little practical. But
>thats off the topic for now.
>Yes this is a phased implementation. I will state how it works just to
>give you all an over view. In simple this system forms a parent node to
3
>other software systems ran by 3 different govt departments. Why are we
not
>converting the leaf nodes first is purely related to how customer wants
to
>go and our marketing team's lack of homework.
>
>I agree with you over the risk assessment part. To be honest, I when
first
>looked at it felt the same way. The only thing thats making me cling on
to
>something is the fact that IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS
WRITTEN
>LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.
>
>Lock issues are very important and can be looked at in a sequential
>fashion. Once we have a solution to update 2 different rows using old
app
>and the new app in a same table. I am sure there will be a work around
>locks.
>
>Right now I am looking for ideas, any idea or theory or perhaps an
>assumption.
>
>Paul: As I stated its a phased implementation. Converting to something
of
>the 21st century is rather not possible.
>
>
>My apologies fellows, if I in any way am going off from Borland's
>DataExpress component/framework topic. I just thought this would be a
good
>place to gather some information. Further a good read for the new
>developers and project managers.
>
>Ideas and thoughts are welcome.
>
>Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
>>And of course the RFP from 1989/1990 probably doesn't reflect the
>>compromises made during the initial development or any upgrades made
since
>>that time. I'm assuming that this is a phased implementation so you
can't
>>just stop using the old system and start using the new.
>>
>>Quite frankly, yours is a project I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
>>The idea of taking an application developed when Windows 3.X was king,
>>rewriting it in the most modern environment available, and doing it in
>>such
>>a way that the two can cooperatively access the same database would send
>>me
>>running for the hills. I would honestly give your project zero chance
of
>>success given those parameters.
>>
>>Another thing that might kill this project (it pretty much destroyed a
>>project that I was called in to replace) is that the dBase locking
>>mechanism
>>varies from vendor to vendor. The system I was replacing had some batch
>>processing code written using the CodeBase library and a user interface
>>written in dBase. The indexes were compatible but the locking
mechanisms
>>were not, which means that there was absolutely nothing to prevent the
>>batch
>>application and the user interface application from updating the same
>>record
>>at the same time or, worse, updating the indexes at the same time, which
>>sent the whole thing squirrelly several times a day. The upshot of this
>>is
>>that even if you find a Java library that seems to cooperate with BDE
>>there's absolutely no guarantee that it will do so under anything
>>approaching a heavy load.
>>
>>Feel free to quote me on the above if it helps you with your boss.
>>--
>>Kevin Dean [TeamB]
>>Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
>>www.datadevelopment.com/
>>
>>Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
>>info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
>>
>>"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>>news:41e83a1c$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>>Thank you guys for your responses.
>>>
>>>Kevin: I really wish it was a reporting tool but its not. Its an
>>>application
>>>written in Delphi and dBase 4 with BDE being the database engine. All
>>>of
>>>the suggestions that you came up with were great but with one problem.
>>>Due
>>>to the security/clearence/who knows what standards of US Gov I dont
have
>>>any
>>>piece of code available. The idea of this project is to convert the
>>>existing
>>>app into java,j2ee and all those nice words that non-computer people
>>>love
>>>to
>>>use. There is zero documentation available for us to see. All we have
is
>>>a
>>>running app and the RFP which contains a waterfall approach towards
>>>non-OOAD
>>>done in 1989 or 90.
>>>Pretty lose lose situation. In other words. "Sorry son you cannot have
>>>the
>>>code to our existing app"
>>>Waiting for your reply.
>>>
>>>Lori:
>>>Its dBase IV. I know BDE is not a database :). I dont really know if i
>>>would
>>>call dBase a Database. Help will be appriciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>World would be such a better place IF technocrats were part of the
board
>>>of
>>>directors, executive decision team etc..
>>
>>
>


 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Please read <a href=www.hxtt.net/en/software/dbf/faq.html>9.
How to works simultaneously with BDE's DBASE and FOXFRO driver.<a>. I
guess that Knopfler can continue his project now. HXTT DBF document is
at www.hxtt.net/en/software/dbf/ . BTW, HXTT Paradox document
is at www.hxtt.net/en/software/paradox/ , but it's not
compatible with BDE's Paradox driver until now. HXTT Text document is
at www.hxtt.net/en/software/text/ , but it's not compatible
with BDE's ASCIIDRV until now.
Dai Wei
HXTT Ltd.
Quote

"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
41ec2607$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Thank you gentlemen. Its proving to be a very complicated. I tried almost
everything I could. New library, calling BDE functions into java
through
JNI, coming up with my own driver to connect and maintain indexes and
few
other methods. Nothing seems to be working. Mapping the DLL works but
as
kevin mentioned, under the higher stress level it fails
Once again thank you TeamB members for the help.
Regards.
"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:41e93f1a$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO
>REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.

Actually, there's a very good reason why it cannot work with something new,
and that is economics. The number of developers who would conceivably
require a connection from a Java application to a proprietary Windows-based
API like the BDE is so ridiculously small as to be completely ignored; the
cost of developing such compatibility would far and away exceed the revenue
to be achieved from doing it. It's like saying you're going to develop a
new car but that you want it to be compatible with the engine from a Model T
just in case some customer has one lying around that they'd like to use.

Locking is not a trivial exercise, and if you don't have the source code for
the existing application, you have almost no hope of developing a compatible
locking mechanism in the Java side. Even if you had the source code for the
existing application, you probably wouldn't find any explicit locking code
therein as its all handled at the BDE level, and the source code for the BDE
is not available.

In my opinion, your project has failed before it has even begun and the
attitude of your director and the marketing team means that the blame will
be laid squarely at your feet. Good luck.

--
Kevin Dean [TeamB]
Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
www.datadevelopment.com/

Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html

"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>
>Kevin:
>I went into my director's office stating the technical problems
>that are and will remain with this project and came out with a
>blame of being too negative i.e. in my opinion a little practical. But
>thats off the topic for now.
>Yes this is a phased implementation. I will state how it works just to
>give you all an over view. In simple this system forms a parent node to 3
>other software systems ran by 3 different govt departments. Why are we not
>converting the leaf nodes first is purely related to how customer wants to
>go and our marketing team's lack of homework.
>
>I agree with you over the risk assessment part. To be honest, I when first
>looked at it felt the same way. The only thing thats making me cling on to
>something is the fact that IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN
>LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.
>
>Lock issues are very important and can be looked at in a sequential
>fashion. Once we have a solution to update 2 different rows using old app
>and the new app in a same table. I am sure there will be a work around
>locks.
>
>Right now I am looking for ideas, any idea or theory or perhaps an
>assumption.
>
>Paul: As I stated its a phased implementation. Converting to something of
>the 21st century is rather not possible.
>
>
>My apologies fellows, if I in any way am going off from Borland's
>DataExpress component/framework topic. I just thought this would be a good
>place to gather some information. Further a good read for the new
>developers and project managers.
>
>Ideas and thoughts are welcome.
>
>Regards.
 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Kevin,
HXTT DBF can work normally with your old applications. You need to
rewrite old batch application in Java so that your old user interface
application can begin to see the compatible lock from batch
application. HXTT DBF supports batch insert. You can find HXTT DBF at
www.hxtt.net/en/software/dbf/ .
With best regards,
Dai Wei
"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
And of course the RFP from 1989/1990 probably doesn't reflect the
compromises made during the initial development or any upgrades made
since
that time. I'm assuming that this is a phased implementation so you
can't
just stop using the old system and start using the new.

Quite frankly, yours is a project I wouldn't touch with a ten foot
pole.
The idea of taking an application developed when Windows 3.X was
king,
rewriting it in the most modern environment available, and doing it
in such
a way that the two can cooperatively access the same database would
send me
running for the hills. I would honestly give your project zero
chance of
success given those parameters.

Another thing that might kill this project (it pretty much destroyed
a
project that I was called in to replace) is that the dBase locking
mechanism
varies from vendor to vendor. The system I was replacing had some
batch
processing code written using the CodeBase library and a user
interface
written in dBase. The indexes were compatible but the locking
mechanisms
were not, which means that there was absolutely nothing to prevent
the batch
application and the user interface application from updating the same
record
at the same time or, worse, updating the indexes at the same time,
which
sent the whole thing squirrelly several times a day. The upshot of
this is
that even if you find a Java library that seems to cooperate with BDE
there's absolutely no guarantee that it will do so under anything
approaching a heavy load.
 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Have you considered exporting the data to another db, such as MySQL?
That's thinking outside of your manager's box.
Otherwise, an ODBC connection would work fairly well, if you don't have to
convert the code, but simply (:) emulate it's functionality in the new app.
regards,
Dar7yl
"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Thank you gentlemen. Its proving to be a very complicated. I tried almost
everything I could. New library, calling BDE functions into java through
JNI, coming up with my own driver to connect and maintain indexes and few
other methods. Nothing seems to be working. Mapping the DLL works but as
kevin mentioned, under the higher stress level it fails.

Once again thank you TeamB members for the help.

Regards.



"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:41e93f1a$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO
>>REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.
>
>Actually, there's a very good reason why it cannot work with something
new,
>and that is economics. The number of developers who would conceivably
>require a connection from a Java application to a proprietary
Windows-based
>API like the BDE is so ridiculously small as to be completely ignored;
>the
>cost of developing such compatibility would far and away exceed the
revenue
>to be achieved from doing it. It's like saying you're going to develop a
>new car but that you want it to be compatible with the engine from a
>Model
T
>just in case some customer has one lying around that they'd like to use.
>
>Locking is not a trivial exercise, and if you don't have the source code
for
>the existing application, you have almost no hope of developing a
compatible
>locking mechanism in the Java side. Even if you had the source code for
the
>existing application, you probably wouldn't find any explicit locking
>code
>therein as its all handled at the BDE level, and the source code for the
BDE
>is not available.
>
>In my opinion, your project has failed before it has even begun and the
>attitude of your director and the marketing team means that the blame
>will
>be laid squarely at your feet. Good luck.
>
>--
>Kevin Dean [TeamB]
>Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
>www.datadevelopment.com/
>
>Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
>info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
>
>"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>
>>Kevin:
>>I went into my director's office stating the technical problems
>>that are and will remain with this project and came out with a
>>blame of being too negative i.e. in my opinion a little practical. But
>>thats off the topic for now.
>>Yes this is a phased implementation. I will state how it works just to
>>give you all an over view. In simple this system forms a parent node to
3
>>other software systems ran by 3 different govt departments. Why are we
not
>>converting the leaf nodes first is purely related to how customer wants
to
>>go and our marketing team's lack of homework.
>>
>>I agree with you over the risk assessment part. To be honest, I when
first
>>looked at it felt the same way. The only thing thats making me cling on
to
>>something is the fact that IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS
WRITTEN
>>LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.
>>
>>Lock issues are very important and can be looked at in a sequential
>>fashion. Once we have a solution to update 2 different rows using old
app
>>and the new app in a same table. I am sure there will be a work around
>>locks.
>>
>>Right now I am looking for ideas, any idea or theory or perhaps an
>>assumption.
>>
>>Paul: As I stated its a phased implementation. Converting to something
of
>>the 21st century is rather not possible.
>>
>>
>>My apologies fellows, if I in any way am going off from Borland's
>>DataExpress component/framework topic. I just thought this would be a
good
>>place to gather some information. Further a good read for the new
>>developers and project managers.
>>
>>Ideas and thoughts are welcome.
>>
>>Regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
>>>And of course the RFP from 1989/1990 probably doesn't reflect the
>>>compromises made during the initial development or any upgrades made
since
>>>that time. I'm assuming that this is a phased implementation so you
can't
>>>just stop using the old system and start using the new.
>>>
>>>Quite frankly, yours is a project I wouldn't touch with a ten foot
>>>pole.
>>>The idea of taking an application developed when Windows 3.X was king,
>>>rewriting it in the most modern environment available, and doing it in
>>>such
>>>a way that the two can cooperatively access the same database would
>>>send
>>>me
>>>running for the hills. I would honestly give your project zero chance
of
>>>success given those parameters.
>>>
>>>Another thing that might kill this project (it pretty much destroyed a
>>>project that I was called in to replace) is that the dBase locking
>>>mechanism
>>>varies from vendor to vendor. The system I was replacing had some
>>>batch
>>>processing code written using the CodeBase library and a user interface
>>>written in dBase. The indexes were compatible but the locking
mechanisms
>>>were not, which means that there was absolutely nothing to prevent the
>>>batch
>>>application and the user interface application from updating the same
>>>record
>>>at the same time or, worse, updating the indexes at the same time,
>>>which
>>>sent the whole thing squirrelly several times a day. The upshot of
>>>this
>>>is
>>>that even if you find a Java library that seems to cooperate with BDE
>>>there's absolutely no guarantee that it will do so under anything
>>>approaching a heavy load.
>>>
>>>Feel free to quote me on the above if it helps you with your boss.
>>>--
>>>Kevin Dean [TeamB]
>>>Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
>>>www.datadevelopment.com/
>>>
>>>Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
>>>info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
>>>
>>>"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>>>news:41e83a1c$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>>>Thank you guys for your responses.
>>>>
>>>>Kevin: I really wish it was a reporting tool but its not. Its an
>>>>application
>>>>written in Delphi and dBase 4 with BDE being the database engine. All
>>>>of
>>>>the suggestions that you came up with were great but with one
>>>>problem.
>>>>Due
>>>>to the security/clearence/who knows what standards of US Gov I dont
have
>>>>any
>>>>piece of code available. The idea of this project is to convert the
>>>>existing
>>>>app into java,j2ee and all those nice words that non-computer people
>>>>love
>>>>to
>>>>use. There is zero documentation available for us to see. All we have
is
>>>>a
>>>>running app and the RFP which contains a waterfall approach towards
>>>>non-OOAD
>>>>done in 1989 or 90.
>>>>Pretty lose lose situation. In other words. "Sorry son you cannot
>>>>have
>>>>the
>>>>code to our existing app"
>>>>Waiting for your reply.
>>>>
>>>>Lori:
>>>>Its dBase IV. I know BDE is not a database :). I dont really know if
>>>>i
>>>>would
>>>>call dBase a Database. Help will be appriciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>World would be such a better place IF technocrats were part of the
board
>>>>of
>>>>directors, executive decision team etc..
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>


 

Re:JDBC and BDE

Knpofler,
Can you please keep us up to date on your progress?
I'm fascinated by the decision-making process and attitudes
of your company's management and want to know how things
turn out for you.
You might want to keep a print out of the key posts in this
thread. If something bad does happen, you have the public
feedback that the problem was insolvable. Even if it's only to
leave for the next guy charged with the task.
Thanks
Tom
"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Thank you gentlemen. Its proving to be a very complicated. I tried almost
everything I could. New library, calling BDE functions into java through
JNI, coming up with my own driver to connect and maintain indexes and few
other methods. Nothing seems to be working. Mapping the DLL works but as
kevin mentioned, under the higher stress level it fails.

Once again thank you TeamB members for the help.

Regards.



"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:41e93f1a$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO
>>REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.
>
>Actually, there's a very good reason why it cannot work with something
new,
>and that is economics. The number of developers who would conceivably
>require a connection from a Java application to a proprietary
Windows-based
>API like the BDE is so ridiculously small as to be completely ignored; the
>cost of developing such compatibility would far and away exceed the
revenue
>to be achieved from doing it. It's like saying you're going to develop a
>new car but that you want it to be compatible with the engine from a Model
T
>just in case some customer has one lying around that they'd like to use.
>
>Locking is not a trivial exercise, and if you don't have the source code
for
>the existing application, you have almost no hope of developing a
compatible
>locking mechanism in the Java side. Even if you had the source code for
the
>existing application, you probably wouldn't find any explicit locking code
>therein as its all handled at the BDE level, and the source code for the
BDE
>is not available.
>
>In my opinion, your project has failed before it has even begun and the
>attitude of your director and the marketing team means that the blame will
>be laid squarely at your feet. Good luck.
>
>--
>Kevin Dean [TeamB]
>Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
>www.datadevelopment.com/
>
>Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
>info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
>
>"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>
>>Kevin:
>>I went into my director's office stating the technical problems
>>that are and will remain with this project and came out with a
>>blame of being too negative i.e. in my opinion a little practical. But
>>thats off the topic for now.
>>Yes this is a phased implementation. I will state how it works just to
>>give you all an over view. In simple this system forms a parent node to
3
>>other software systems ran by 3 different govt departments. Why are we
not
>>converting the leaf nodes first is purely related to how customer wants
to
>>go and our marketing team's lack of homework.
>>
>>I agree with you over the risk assessment part. To be honest, I when
first
>>looked at it felt the same way. The only thing thats making me cling on
to
>>something is the fact that IF IT CAN WORK WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS
WRITTEN
>>LONG TIME AGO I SEE NO REASON WHY IT CANNOT WORK WITH SOMETHING NEW.
>>
>>Lock issues are very important and can be looked at in a sequential
>>fashion. Once we have a solution to update 2 different rows using old
app
>>and the new app in a same table. I am sure there will be a work around
>>locks.
>>
>>Right now I am looking for ideas, any idea or theory or perhaps an
>>assumption.
>>
>>Paul: As I stated its a phased implementation. Converting to something
of
>>the 21st century is rather not possible.
>>
>>
>>My apologies fellows, if I in any way am going off from Borland's
>>DataExpress component/framework topic. I just thought this would be a
good
>>place to gather some information. Further a good read for the new
>>developers and project managers.
>>
>>Ideas and thoughts are welcome.
>>
>>Regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Kevin Dean [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
>>>And of course the RFP from 1989/1990 probably doesn't reflect the
>>>compromises made during the initial development or any upgrades made
since
>>>that time. I'm assuming that this is a phased implementation so you
can't
>>>just stop using the old system and start using the new.
>>>
>>>Quite frankly, yours is a project I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
>>>The idea of taking an application developed when Windows 3.X was king,
>>>rewriting it in the most modern environment available, and doing it in
>>>such
>>>a way that the two can cooperatively access the same database would send
>>>me
>>>running for the hills. I would honestly give your project zero chance
of
>>>success given those parameters.
>>>
>>>Another thing that might kill this project (it pretty much destroyed a
>>>project that I was called in to replace) is that the dBase locking
>>>mechanism
>>>varies from vendor to vendor. The system I was replacing had some batch
>>>processing code written using the CodeBase library and a user interface
>>>written in dBase. The indexes were compatible but the locking
mechanisms
>>>were not, which means that there was absolutely nothing to prevent the
>>>batch
>>>application and the user interface application from updating the same
>>>record
>>>at the same time or, worse, updating the indexes at the same time, which
>>>sent the whole thing squirrelly several times a day. The upshot of this
>>>is
>>>that even if you find a Java library that seems to cooperate with BDE
>>>there's absolutely no guarantee that it will do so under anything
>>>approaching a heavy load.
>>>
>>>Feel free to quote me on the above if it helps you with your boss.
>>>--
>>>Kevin Dean [TeamB]
>>>Dolphin Data Development Ltd.
>>>www.datadevelopment.com/
>>>
>>>Please see Borland's newsgroup guidelines at
>>>info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
>>>
>>>"Knopfler" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>>>news:41e83a1c$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>>>Thank you guys for your responses.
>>>>
>>>>Kevin: I really wish it was a reporting tool but its not. Its an
>>>>application
>>>>written in Delphi and dBase 4 with BDE being the database engine. All
>>>>of
>>>>the suggestions that you came up with were great but with one problem.
>>>>Due
>>>>to the security/clearence/who knows what standards of US Gov I dont
have
>>>>any
>>>>piece of code available. The idea of this project is to convert the
>>>>existing
>>>>app into java,j2ee and all those nice words that non-computer people
>>>>love
>>>>to
>>>>use. There is zero documentation available for us to see. All we have
is
>>>>a
>>>>running app and the RFP which contains a waterfall approach towards
>>>>non-OOAD
>>>>done in 1989 or 90.
>>>>Pretty lose lose situation. In other words. "Sorry son you cannot have
>>>>the
>>>>code to our existing app"
>>>>Waiting for your reply.
>>>>
>>>>Lori:
>>>>Its dBase IV. I know BDE is not a database :). I dont really know if i
>>>>would
>>>>call dBase a Database. Help will be appriciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>World would be such a better place IF technocrats were part of the
board
>>>>of
>>>>directors, executive decision team etc..
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>