Board index » kylix » Re: How increase Kylix sales

Re: How increase Kylix sales


2003-10-03 05:08:32 AM
kylix0
"Ender" wrote:
Quote
Your taskbar may behave differently
depending on current window manager KDE or GNOME or fvwm2 or other is
used.
That's not good.
Maybe your car has 4 doors while mine has two. What is wrong on having a
choice? People choose the desktop environment they like. On Linux you have
that choice. And if you don't like desktop environments then don't use one,
there is also an enormous choice in shells.
Peter
 
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

"JQP" wrote:
Quote
"Peter Agricola" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>No, it's a feature.

The user decides ... that is if you actually want users.

The "standard" user interface for *nix is the command line.
There is even an enormous choice in commandline shells.
Quote
This may be a
great feature for a network admin; it may not be for the average desktop
user. Any time the average desktop user is confronted with this
"feature",
he assumes the computer has crashed and perhaps rightfully so from his
perspective.

It's all a matter of who you want using the product.
It is a matter from what your proposed user has choosen to use.
Peter
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Quote
Lack of standardization and compatibility is not innovative; *nix has had
this for decades.

There are standards in Linux, but they are stablished by common acceptance.
That is: if you propose something and if *most* of the people finds it
*useful* then, in the long term, it will be commonly accepted as an
standard. Again, it's an ecosystem like context: propose the best method to
do something and everyone will use it, but sub-standard ideas will not
survive the scrutiny of the community.
The comparison with *nix is irrelevant. In the *nix days you had multiple
closed and incompatible systems and you had no choise but accept the a
priori "standards" offered by any of the *nix vendors, like it or not. The
lack of standarization was a problem with *nix because everything was closed
or propietary. Lack of standarization in an open system like Linux means
only that a common criteria has not been found yet.
If you think that the multiple means of do something in Linux is a problem
in any area of your interest just propose to the world a better way to do it
and every one will follow (you'll need to be persistent, though). If you
have nothing useful to say, just better say nothing...
Quote
But maybe you're right --- maybe I just don't understand; maybe Borland
just
doesn't understand, maybe the marketplace just doesn't understand. Maybe
the absence of Linux on the desktop is all just a misunderstanding.


It's funny how you try to prove your assertions using the same you are
trying to prove in the first place. Something like: "there's no Linux
desktop applications because... there's no Linux desktop applications!
QED"...
By the way, your glass is always half empty, isn't it? ;-)
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

"Michael Schnell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
>>How to increase Kylix sales?
>
>Address the underlying problem --- the lack of a significant Linux desktop
>presence and the reasons why.
>

The cause is lack of application software
Penguins always say this a myth and
point to the gobbs of apps distributed
with all the distros.
Quote

The cause is lack of easy to use development tools
Kylix is very easy to use. It's deployment that's a bi..
ugh ... female dog.
--
Hilton Evans
-----------------------------------------------
ChemPen Chemical Structure Software
www.chempensoftware.com
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

<K.M.>wrote:
Quote

It's funny how you try to prove your assertions using the same you are
trying to prove in the first place. Something like: "there's no Linux
desktop applications because... there's no Linux desktop applications!
QED"...

By the way, your glass is always half empty, isn't it? ;-)
You have understand that some people are part of the MS collective <G>.
"Gates said it, I believe it, and that settles it".
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

On 10/02/03 21:19 +0900, JQP wrote:
Quote
Sounds like we agree.
In part.
Quote
What I don't understand is why anyone would even think of targeting this
sort of environment with a commercial desktop product.
Because there's no reason to assume a) that there's no market for
the product and, b) that open-source applications dealing with
the same problem domain will do it better.
As a very, very small example, I've used the commercial OSS sound
drivers for several years on different boxes. Why? It's simple:
installation could hardly be easier, it works and the one time I
/did/ report a bug for one sound card, I got a patch that worked
perfectly less than 24 hours later.
Sure, I could get working sound support by compiling kernels and
the like. Alternatively, I can spend a few bucks and 90 seconds
after downloading and installing on the new box, I have sound
pumping out MP3s via XMMS or Zinf. I'll gladly pay for the
convenience of the commercial driver.
I'd also gladly pay for commercial implementations of astronomy
planetarium software to control my scope and CCD camera. If Adobe
hadn't abandoned PhotoShop on UNIX and had decided to support
Linux, I'd cough up for it in a heartbeat (GIMP is
incomprehendable to me). Give me Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro on
Linux and I'll happily buy that. How about Cakewalk Pyro? Yummy!
I mean, heck, I even bought a commercial X server before. Go
figure. ;-)
Companies have always had to make platform decisions. In the DOS
days, would one support DESQview, DESQview/X, Windows or other
multitaskers/GUIs, but likely not all? The issues are much the
same as they are for whether to target Linux and, if so, what
distribution and libs will be supported.
So, then we have the porting issue. Many companies have been
Windows shops for their entire existence. They see a potential
market in Linux because none of the available software does what
theirs does (or does it poorly). The carrot of being able to code
on Windows and compile on Linux surely has to be appealing.
Assuming that the basic design of the software is good, Delphi
and Kylix really do make it possible. It might not, however, be
quite as simple as folks would immediately think.
Maybe I'm an exception, but I really do prefer using Linux on the
desktop. And I'm very quick to let companies know that if they
port their product over to Linux, I'll buy (assuming the price is
right -- see my previous post regarding the lack of entry-level
pricing for a Kylix version moderately more equipped than the
free version).
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
// mp3.com/trane_francks/
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Trane Francks wrote:
Quote
On 10/02/03 21:19 +0900, JQP wrote:

>Sounds like we agree.

In part.


Maybe I'm an exception, but I really do prefer using Linux on the
desktop. And I'm very quick to let companies know that if they
port their product over to Linux, I'll buy (assuming the price is
right -- see my previous post regarding the lack of entry-level
pricing for a Kylix version moderately more equipped than the
free version).

trane
You are not alone in preferring Linux to Windows on the desktop. The only
thing I miss is some of the Web Design tools on Windows. However, VNC works
quite well and I do not have to worry about getting 100 viruses per day, or
downloading patches, new Virus updates, new firewwall updates, etc.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Quote

You have understand that some people are part of the MS collective
<G>. "Gates said it, I believe it, and that settles it".
Actually is more like
Gates said it I do not like a banch of overpaid halfbrained managers
make it a hipe I have to follow it if I want to make money so I can
leave.
regards
johnnie.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Peter Agricola wrote:
Quote
Maybe your car has 4 doors while mine has two. What is wrong on having a
choice? People choose the desktop environment they like. On Linux you have
that choice. And if you don't like desktop environments then don't use
one, there is also an enormous choice in shells.
You show too small and insiginficant difference, most likely as themes and
visual styles. Difference between desktops is deeper, for example like
principial difference in methods of controlling of car movement. Most
likely you will not encounter a car that use T-90 movement controls, or
that car will be extremely rare, or used only for very specific work.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Peter Agricola wrote:
Quote

"Ender" wrote:
>Your taskbar may behave differently
>depending on current window manager KDE or GNOME or fvwm2 or other
>is
used.
>That's not good.


Maybe your car has 4 doors while mine has two. What is wrong on
having a choice? People choose the desktop environment they like. On
Linux you have that choice. And if you don't like desktop
environments then don't use one, there is also an enormous choice in
shells.


Peter
I do not mind the choise I do mind the lack of support or a common
dominator which I coold use to offer this choise to the end user.
I'm not here to decide for the end user I'm here to create a tool
which the end user can easelly adapt to his/her needs.
so it is verry cool that I have a choise but it is not mine to make.
regards
johnnie.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Quote
Kylix is very easy to use. It's deployment that's a bi..
ugh ... female dog.
why ?
Because you do not have installshield or wise installation to pack for
you all the options you might need?
Is it possible to actually create such a beast on linux?
I do not know I do not thing I want to know.
regards
johnnie.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

pNichols wrote:
Quote
Phoenix wrote:

>Tony Caduto wrote:
>
>>have you heard of the Lazurus Project?
>>It does just that, but seems to have little suport.
>
>must be a reason for that.
>
Main reason for Kylix and Lazarus not having a strong following, is
that Unix programmers do not use Pascal.

Most Unix programming is C/C++ based, Perl based, or Java based.

Python is becoming popular, especially in PHP Web based programming,
and TCL is probably somewhere in 4th or 5th place. Visual TCL is
pretty good at building GUI apps, but I am not that familiar with the
language. The Visual TCL IDE looks pretty good, however.

I think Borland really missed the boat with Kylix early on. Kylix 1
was far too buggy for creating any large project. Kylix 2 was better
and Kylix 3 is pretty good. However, Borland has not kept up with any
of the new libs in the Linux world, and that means dead end
development.

Kylix C++, probably had a great chance, but it is horribly buggy. I
am glad Borland has decided to create a REAL XPlatform C++,
I think they are not that well suited for this either take a look
on www.openwatcom.com
regards
johnnie.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

"JQP" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:3f7c17e7$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
"Trane Francks" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

What I don't understand is why anyone would even think of targeting this
sort of environment with a commercial desktop product.
If you mean by commercial you mean retail you're probably
right. However commercial can mean a kiosk application or
institutional desktop application that runs on the platform of the
institution's choice. Another possibility is an embedded OS
app that runs off a disk, e.g. a game.
--Hilton Evans
-----------------------------------------------
ChemPen Chemical Structure Software
www.chempensoftware.com
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

"Ender" wrote:
Quote
Peter Agricola wrote:
>Maybe your car has 4 doors while mine has two. What is wrong on having a
>choice? People choose the desktop environment they like. On Linux you
have
>that choice. And if you don't like desktop environments then don't use
>one, there is also an enormous choice in shells.

You show too small and insiginficant difference, most likely as themes and
visual styles. Difference between desktops is deeper, for example like
principial difference in methods of controlling of car movement. Most
likely you will not encounter a car that use T-90 movement controls, or
that car will be extremely rare, or used only for very specific work.
Maybe your car has automatic transmission while mine hasn't. Because you
don't feel comfortable in my car I have to buy one with automatic
transmission too? No way!
Peter
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

"johnnie" wrote:
Quote

I do not mind the choise I do mind the lack of support or a common
dominator which I coold use to offer this choise to the end user.

I'm not here to decide for the end user I'm here to create a tool
which the end user can easelly adapt to his/her needs.

so it is verry cool that I have a choise but it is not mine to make.
The benefits are for the user. Not for us as developers. For us is the
easiest way to deliver one executable for every one. Unfortunately this
isn't the case. On the other hand, all those niche markets have
opportunities for a lot more companies (and people) to make a living.
Peter