Board index » kylix » Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Re: Kylix now officialy dead?


2004-12-06 07:52:30 AM
kylix2
Quote
>No, it's just my personal opinion and observations. Rather basic stuff, really:
>
>As you can easily see, the Kylix IDE is a port of the Delphi 6 IDE. Starting with
>C#Builder, Borland has developed a new IDE, called "BDS" (or Galileo). This IDE has
>now been used for Delphi 8 and Delphi 2005. It obviously is a new codebase. It would
>be rather weird to assume that Borland will continue to improve the old abandoned
>IDEs codebase at this point.
>
>That's what IMHO makes the current Kylix IDE a dead-end in the long run.

Well, long live Kylix 4 IDE then! <g>I would be happy with the current
K3 IDE with it's bugs fixed and supporting the latest winelib..
Yes, that would be sure nice to see. And as it looks, we might actually see those K3 fixes.
Quote
>However, I somehow doubt the "real" Linux users would like such an option. They
>didn't like the Winelib binding back when Kylix was released, so why should they
>now like a different kind of emulation layer?

I don't know these "real" Linux users.. Linux is about choice. Like it
or leave it. I am sure if it worked well it would fly! Especially for
commercial companies and delvelopers - are they not "real" Linux users?
If you have a little too much spare time, use google groups to browse the archive of
these groups from the time Kylix was released (or the SLashdot article comments). A
lot of people complained about the Winelib usage back then.
Quote
>All in all this led me the conclusion: The only way to get a future-proof IDE out
>for Linux would be a rewrite, having as few as possible dependencies on other
>Linux libraries as possible. I doubt we'll see this soon.

Well - when Mono matures in a few years time to host a Delphi IDE then
good stuff too! , but as a temporary measure they can patch the current
version to work until then.
This wouldn't make sense. You see what happened when they built the Kylix IDE
on a specific Winelib release. It's perfectly normal in the Linux world that with
a new release of some library all programs that used it break and need to be
recompiled. This is a major problem for binary deployed software like the Kylix IDE.
Adding more dependencies will make the problem much much worse than it already is.
Quote
>>>Compared to this, the "Develop on Windows and deploy to Linux"-route would
>>>be far less of an investment, and probably will give a better revenue. And that's
>>>what it's all about for Borland, I guess.
>>
>>I definitely do not agree..
>
>
>You do not agree to WHAT?

Developing on Windows to deploy on Linux.
You can't disagree on a cut-off half of my sentence ;)
Quote
>>sorry I have to say, but are you trying to
>>make Cross Kylix into a commercial venture with Borland? (I think you
>>have already mentioned elsewhere that Borland is supporting you- please
>>correct me - there is of course nothing wrong with that, but that is a
>>seperate product)
>
>
>Are you bullshitting me? CrossKylix is available for free, with big chunks
>being BSD-licensed. Doesn't sound like a commercial venture for me.

No intensions to offend - sorry - Thanks for setting the record straight
:) ({*word*97} theory brain at work.. bad brain %)
Ok, so this is solved. And yes, it was rather offending to me.
Quote
It sounds like you are against a Kylix IDE that's the FUD I am refering
to.. Are you for a Kylix IDE on Linux?
I'm for everything that ensures the future of Kylix. It's damn great to have
rock-solid object pascal compiler for Linux. A stable future for Kylix sure
also includes the wish for the IDE to keep maintained.
Simon
 
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Sorry, I can't see any progress in the Kylix direction in the near future.
Danny and all other resources at Borland are on the .Net2.0 track.
:-(
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Nick Hodges [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:

>So guys, it looks like Kylix is dead...

Well, it may /look/ that way to you, but it isn't true; Danny Thorpe
spoke of Kylix work pretty opitmistically in his online chat:

bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32789,00.html
You have far too a sunny outlook on life Nick! A sentence or two really
does not demonstrate to me that Kylix will be resurrected as a
commercial product, although I do believe it will one day. I have no
intention of going anywhere with it after buying 1 2 & 3.
B
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Where can one read the anouncement when it is released?
Rob
"Nick Hodges [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Israel T wrote:

>BCB is dead too.

You don't know this. It /may/ be dead. It either will or won't be on
14 December. But it is wrong to say that it is dead.

--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Robby Tanner wrote:
Quote
Where can one read the anouncement when it is released?
Probably at
www.borland.com
and
bdn.borland.com
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

...and where is the info indicating that there will be an anouncement and
what the topic will be?
Rob
"Nick Hodges [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Robby Tanner wrote:

>Where can one read the anouncement when it is released?

Probably at

www.borland.com

and

bdn.borland.com


--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Israel T wrote:
Quote
"Robby Tanner" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >writes:


>What I'm wondering about is the claim regarding BCB also looking
>rough. Can someone please substantiate those claims?

BCB ( Builder not X ) has been end of lifed.
Not yet. On Dec 15 you'll know more about BCB's future.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury."
-- Groucho Marx
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Robby Tanner wrote:
Quote
...and where is the info indicating that there will be an anouncement
and what the topic will be?
On the BCB groups. I don't exactly remember when and where anymore, but
a decision about BCB's future was promised on Dec. 15.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"God, please save me from your followers!"
- Bumper Sticker
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Not yet. On Dec 15 you'll know more about BCB's future.
It will be assimilated by the new Delphi 2005 IDE that
some refer to as BDS. I assume the "B" stands for "Borg"?
--
Arthur Hoornweg
(In order to reply per e-mail, please just remove the ".net"
from my e-mail address. Leave the rest of the address intact
including the "antispam" part. I had to take this measure to
counteract unsollicited mail.)
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Quote
It will be assimilated by the new Delphi 2005
Sounds like it might be a good thing. It would be great to have the
choice of language (C++/C# or Delphi language) on a per procedure base.
OTOH the choice of output format (Native Windows EXE or .NET CIL) seems
to be coming up.
Downside: no native Linux exe, no MONO enabled CIL (yet), no IDE on
Linux (ever ?)
-Michael
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
Quote
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] wrote:

>Not yet. On Dec 15 you'll know more about BCB's future.


It will be assimilated by the new Delphi 2005 IDE that
some refer to as BDS. I assume the "B" stands for "Borg"?
<yawn>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"Programming is one of the most difficult branches of applied
mathematics; the poorer mathematicians had better remain pure
mathematicians." -- Edsger Dijkstra
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Michael Schnell wrote:
Quote
>It will be assimilated by the new Delphi 2005

Sounds like it might be a good thing. It would be great to have the
choice of language (C++/C# or Delphi language) on a per procedure
base.
On a per unit base only. And it is not sure whether the C++ in BDS will
be C++ for .NET. I'd guess it will be for Win32. For .NET, one would
need an implementation of C++/CLI, which does not exist yet (standard
is stil being formed), and is currently being developed by MS (Herb
Sutter's team, AFAIK).
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
"I just bought a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
-- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when was informed that Apple Inc. had
recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next
Mac.
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] wrote:
Quote
Michael Schnell wrote:


>>It will be assimilated by the new Delphi 2005
>
>Sounds like it might be a good thing. It would be great to have the
>choice of language (C++/C# or Delphi language) on a per procedure
>base.


On a per unit base only.
I don't think that's a problem. You can do small units ;)
Quote
And it is not sure whether the C++ in BDS will
be C++ for .NET.
C++ for .NET ? Is there such a thing ? I doubt is. That is why C# was
invented. (Just to hide the fact that much of .NET is based on thoughts
that were invented for Delphi by Borland employees).
-Michael
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

Michael Schnell wrote:
Quote
>And it is not sure whether the C++ in BDS will
>be C++ for .NET.

C++ for .NET ?
There currently is a MS Managed C++, and there will be a standard for
C++/CLI.
www.codeproject.com/managedcpp/cppcliintro01.asp
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
-- Source Unknown
 

Re:Re: Kylix now officialy dead?

"Michael Schnell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] wrote:
>Michael Schnell wrote:
C++ for .NET ? Is there such a thing ? I doubt is. That is why C# was
invented. (Just to hide the fact that much of .NET is based on thoughts
that were invented for Delphi by Borland employees).
...or to try and kill Java.