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Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant


2003-07-11 06:47:21 AM
kylix1
In the August 2003 edition of Delphi Informant, Bill Todd made these
comments in an article titled "Life after the BDE":
"Borland...wanted a data access technology that would run on both
Windows and Linux..."
"Unfortunately, the explosive growth in Linux that Borland had hoped
for did not happen and they are stuck supporting dbExpress and it's
drivers".
I disagree with his negative assessment of dbExpress. I think the
light-weight model is more like ADO.Net, and the industry in general
seems to be moving towards light-weight database access.
But his comment about Borland's dissatisfaction with Kylix in the
marketplace seems to be on target.
Eric
 
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

Quote


I disagree with his negative assessment

Me too.
--
Anders Ohlsson - Borland Developer Relations - bdn.borland.com/
Borland Software Corporation - www.borland.com/ - Excellence Endures
Enabling our customers to move into the future without abandoning their past
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Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

Eric Engler wrote:
Quote
I disagree with his negative assessment of dbExpress. I think the
light-weight model is more like ADO.Net, and the industry in general
seems to be moving towards light-weight database access.
When I first examined ADO.NET I was amazed at how much like dbExpress it
was. Almost as if Microsoft was following Borland's steps to the "T".
Quote
But his comment about Borland's dissatisfaction with Kylix in the
marketplace seems to be on target.
That may be true. I'm sure Borland wanted to sell more copies of Kylix.
Although it hasn't been a complete disaster from what I can tell. The
problem is .NET coming along when it did. That has distracted Kylix
development. It also seems that Linux's own progress has been slower
than marketing firms predicted, although it is still doing alright. New
products like Kylix take a while to gain some traction. I fully expect
that the release of Kylix 4 will get Borland a much bigger market share.
I think one of the problems with Kylix is that people think of it as
an end-users dev tool, much like Delphi is. However, Kylix is more of
an enterprise dev tool - i.e. for an environment that is better
controlled, not multiple versions of Linux deployed etc.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

Quote
I fully expect that the release of Kylix 4 will get Borland a much bigger market share.
I agree - especially if they support mono!
But I'm somewhat concerned that they might not do another Kylix
release :-(
Eric
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

Hilton Evans wrote:
Quote
Interesting point, although I think of an enterprise tool
as on for developing apps across multiple computers
and environments. That said, I agree Kylix is more suited
to one where a specific Linux is deployed. I always
though a good situation for Kylix would be for apps the
run off a bootable CD with a dedicated Linux deployed
from the Disk eg. a game. You could deploy the Linux
with only the necessary baggage to run your app.
Another would be a kiosk app.

That's one of the examples how a "problem" can be solved, just by
changing how we see things..
--
InstallMade - Kylix-specific installer/builder
www.superobject.com/installmade/
Packages: tar.gz, self-installable, RPM, LCR,
and creates standalone executables.
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

Then, lets focus our energy on looking for an alternative. Got any
ideas? Maybe not as rad as Kylix, but some rad would be nice.
Eric Engler wrote:
Quote
>I fully expect that the release of Kylix 4 will get Borland a much bigger market share.


I agree - especially if they support mono!

But I'm somewhat concerned that they might not do another Kylix
release :-(

Eric

 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

I agree that there might not be another Kylix. Do you have another
ideas as to an alternative. Even if it is not as rad as Kylix as long
as it supported.
Eric Engler wrote:
Quote
>I fully expect that the release of Kylix 4 will get Borland a much bigger market share.


I agree - especially if they support mono!

But I'm somewhat concerned that they might not do another Kylix
release :-(

Eric

 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

"Kevin" wrote
Quote
However, Kylix is more of an enterprise dev tool - i.e.
for an environment that is better controlled, not multiple
versions of Linux deployed etc.
This is an interesting observation, the first time I've read it in such an
explicit form, although I've had some vague ideas of the same sort myself.
For example you may be interested to know they're using Kylix at the
European Space Agency.
A very strictly controlled environment indeed. They have defined 'their'
Linux as SuSE 7.2, end of story.
There were shouts of indignation when faced with the proposal of using SuSE
8.2 instead...
Kristofer
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

RandChris < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
I agree that there might not be another Kylix. Do you have another
ideas as to an alternative. Even if it is not as rad as Kylix as long
as it supported.
Kylix is definately the best development platform on linux,
so lets hope it has a long and happy life.
The alternatives? How about C++ (gcc/gpp) using the QT frameworks?
In the same family is KDevelop - an open source IDE that
has a lot of fans.
There's a Python that uses QT now too, if you don't mind
interpreted code. And Java if you don't want to program
linux guts like pipes and message queues and semaphores
and shared memory etc.
Kind of sad that Borland gave itself a black eye with
the Kylix support question. Maybe they should loosen the
old corporate necktie and open-source a slice of it, like
Apple's trying to do. Apple is a lot like Borland -
alternative, understaffed, and under the gun. Distribute
the load to the community. In the long term there's probably
no other way.
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

"Kevin" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Eric Engler wrote:
an end-users dev tool, much like Delphi is. However, Kylix is
more of
an enterprise dev tool - i.e. for an environment that is better
controlled, not multiple versions of Linux deployed etc.

Interesting point, although I think of an enterprise tool
as on for developing apps across multiple computers
and environments. That said, I agree Kylix is more suited
to one where a specific Linux is deployed. I always
though a good situation for Kylix would be for apps the
run off a bootable CD with a dedicated Linux deployed
from the Disk eg. a game. You could deploy the Linux
with only the necessary baggage to run your app.
Another would be a kiosk app.
--
Hilton Evans
-----------------------------------------------
ChemPen Chemical Structure Software
www.chempensoftware.com
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

K>I think one of the problems with Kylix is that people think of it
K>as an end-users dev tool, much like Delphi is.
Why Delphi is "end-users" dev tool? It is universal as for end-users as for
enterprise.
K>However, Kylix is more of an enterprise dev tool - i.e. for an
K>environment that is better controlled, not multiple versions of Linux
K>deployed etc.
And this is one of negative reasons why particular developer should use
something more universal than kylix.
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

"Kristofer Skaug" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Are you referring to a specific event, or just the general non-event of
Kylix maintenance?
The general non-event. Kylix has the makings of greatness.
And it couldn't have been easy to get off the ground. It
deserves more attention from Borland.
And does anybody at Borland really expect to make a penney
going head to head against microsoft with another C# IDE?
You just have to question the corporate priorities.
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

Ender wrote:
Quote
And this is one of negative reasons why particular developer should use
something more universal than kylix.
I should add that I don't expect Kylix to stay that way. I'm sure
Borland is working to bring out a more general-purpose Kylix for 4.0.
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

"Kevin" wrote
Quote
It amazes me how negative the comments have been on this newsgroup,
when in fact Kylix is probably the most complete native x86 dev
tool for Linux.
For the people coming from Delphi and Windows (like me), we don't know/care
about that. If Linux has nothing better to offer than Kylix then that just
reaffirms our suspicion that the Linux jungle is a slightly uncivilised and
primitive place.
We're spoilt brats and compare everything to our favorite Mercedes, Delphi.
The biggest disappointment with Kylix from my point of view was that there
are so many unneccesary trivial gaps between the CLX and the VCL, so that if
you wanted to have cross platform code, you are pretty much forced to accept
the substandard CLX (QT widgets) for Windows, i.e. *reducing* the quality
of your Windows apps.
I don't mind so much if Linux ports of my apps behave differently and look
weird, after all I find almost everything in Linux weird-looking. But they
should {*word*76}y well look and feel the same (i.e. be VCL) under Windows.
Quote
corporations don't jump straight into the latest versions of an O/S.
They wait for it to mature/stabilize before deploying. Kylix fits
nicely in this environment.
Yep.
Quote
Of course, developers are another issue altogether. We all want the
latest and greatest version of Linux.
Hmmm. Personally I prefer to have a stable, familiar, predictable
development environment, otherwise I'll never know which bit is slipping -
my code or theirs (the OS). I've already had enough of a bumpy ride with
different Linuxes and Kylix...
Kristofer
 

Re:Bill Todd's comments in Delphi Informant

"Ender" wrote
Quote

And this is one of negative reasons why particular developer should use
something more universal than kylix.
Is it really the QT that's responsible for this?
Or is there some other design limitation of Kylix that makes it so
"unflexible"?
Kristofer