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Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]


2004-10-21 02:53:56 PM
kylix2
Greetings -- it's been a while since I've posted or checked, so forgive me
if this seems a bit naive -- last I heard was that there were "no plans for
a new version in 2004". Since 2004 is "nearly over", I'm beginning to
wonder "how about 2005?"
At the local Fry's, there is one lone "upgrade" package still on the shelf.
I was reluctant to buy it last year because of the aforementioned
announcement, and I still find myself not-quite-able to actually buy it now
because of "nagging doubt". Does Borland plan on anything (significant or
otherwise) for "Kylix" in the near future?
I know it is a vicious circle/catch-22 sort of thing, but I need some
assurance that "investing" in them by buying their products is a "wise
thing to do" ;)
As such, there are other packages out there that are likely to grab my
developmet dollar: free-pascal and Gambas (Gambas in particular for the
"rad" style of development)
Tom
p.s. I would have posted in the ...upgrade group, but that group seems
rather dead -- only one "spam" post in there at the time I subscribed...
 
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Tom Emerson wrote:
Quote
Does Borland plan on anything (significant or
otherwise) for "Kylix" in the near future?

A big NO here (im my opinion, of course). Not near neither distant.
Quote
I know it is a vicious circle/catch-22 sort of thing, but I need some
assurance that "investing" in them by buying their products is a "wise
thing to do" ;)

The best way to be sure is go free software. Company administrators
report to shareholders, not users. You must never depends on a
company for medium and long terms.
Quote
As such, there are other packages out there that are likely to grab my
developmet dollar: free-pascal and Gambas (Gambas in particular for the
"rad" style of development)

Personaly I'm going Java for end-user applications and going back
to C for low level stuff.
Ivan.
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Simon Kissel wrote:
Quote
>>Does Borland plan on anything (significant or
>>otherwise) for "Kylix" in the near future?
>>
>
>A big NO here (im my opinion, of course). Not near neither distant.


So what are several Borland employees doing in the Community project
then? ;)

Simon, your dedication, commitment, patience and code skils amazes me.
CrossKylix is a great achievment and you must be proud of it. I envy
you, realy. But you is a man alone and, without a clear sign from
Borland, I have no other option than declare Kylix prety dead. I even
believe the Community project anouncement is just a way to stop
complainers, make them cry softly. Looks the strategy works.
Quote
>>I know it is a vicious circle/catch-22 sort of thing, but I need some
>>assurance that "investing" in them by buying their products is a "wise
>>thing to do" ;)
>>
>
>The best way to be sure is go free software.


Might be. Problem is: There is no free software comparable to Kylix.

Most the software I write nowadays are "for the web" and RAD does
not have a so huge advantage in that segment. I'm plaing with
Eclipse 3 on my scarse spare time and it looks promissing.
Quote

>Personaly I'm going Java for end-user applications and going back
>to C for low level stuff.


..which you are saying yourself here.

Simon
Ivan.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
At the local Fry's, there is one lone "upgrade" package still on the shelf.
I was reluctant to buy it last year because of the aforementioned
announcement, and I still find myself not-quite-able to actually buy it now
because of "nagging doubt". Does Borland plan on anything (significant or
otherwise) for "Kylix" in the near future?
There currently are no official announcements for a new Kylix version. Borland
recently has launched the Kylix Community Project, which now is pretty active
in working on Kylix' future. I'm pretty confident now that the future of the
Kylix RTL/CLX is safe. The future of the Kylix IDE is currently unknown,
however.
In case you didn't see it yet, CrossKylix is available
(crosskylix.untergrund.net) and is tightly integrated with the
Community Project. This gives you the choice to develop on Windows, while
also deploying to Linux.
While the Kylix newsgroups here look pretty dead, there actually is a quite
high number of users (including major corporate ones) using Kylix.
My personal opinion is: Yes, buying Kylix will be a good investment.
And obviously, the more the userbase is growing again, the brighter the
future of Kylix will look like.
Simon
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
>Does Borland plan on anything (significant or
>otherwise) for "Kylix" in the near future?
>

A big NO here (im my opinion, of course). Not near neither distant.
So what are several Borland employees doing in the Community project
then? ;)
Quote
>I know it is a vicious circle/catch-22 sort of thing, but I need some
>assurance that "investing" in them by buying their products is a "wise
>thing to do" ;)
>

The best way to be sure is go free software.
Might be. Problem is: There is no free software comparable to Kylix.
Quote
Personaly I'm going Java for end-user applications and going back
to C for low level stuff.
...which you are saying yourself here.
Simon
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Tom Emerson schrieb:
Does Borland plan on anything (significant or
Quote
otherwise) for "Kylix" in the near future?

Here is all I know about the future of Kylix:
freeclx.sourceforge.net/index.php
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Ivan,
Quote
you, realy. But you is a man alone and, without a clear sign from
Borland, I have no other option than declare Kylix prety dead. I even
believe the Community project anouncement is just a way to stop
complainers, make them cry softly. Looks the strategy works.
Well, my impression is different. The Borlanders that are part of the
Community Project are pretty active there (I'm part of the project,
too). Also, there aren't many complainers left - those seem to have
abondoned Kylix already. If Borland didn't care, they could just
silently drop Kylix.
I think the reality looks more like that the Development Team currently
has more important things to do (Delphi 2005), and it's not clear
when they'll again have resources for low-priority Kylix. The Community
Project more looks like an attempt to keep Kylix alive so they have the
chance to possibly later get back to it.
Quote
>Might be. Problem is: There is no free software comparable to Kylix.
>

Most the software I write nowadays are "for the web" and RAD does
not have a so huge advantage in that segment. I'm plaing with
Eclipse 3 on my scarse spare time and it looks promissing.
Well, yes, if you don't need Kylix, then you don't need Kylix ;)
Simon
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

I agree with you Simon completely.
Marian
Quote
I think the reality looks more like that the Development Team currently
has more important things to do (Delphi 2005), and it's not clear
when they'll again have resources for low-priority Kylix. The Community
Project more looks like an attempt to keep Kylix alive so they have the
chance to possibly later get back to it.


 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Simon Kissel wrote:
Quote
Ivan,


>you, realy. But you is a man alone and, without a clear sign from
>Borland, I have no other option than declare Kylix prety dead. I even
>believe the Community project anouncement is just a way to stop
>complainers, make them cry softly. Looks the strategy works.


Well, my impression is different. The Borlanders that are part of the
Community Project are pretty active there (I'm part of the project,
too). Also, there aren't many complainers left - those seem to have
abondoned Kylix already. If Borland didn't care, they could just
silently drop Kylix.

I think the reality looks more like that the Development Team currently
has more important things to do (Delphi 2005), and it's not clear
when they'll again have resources for low-priority Kylix. The Community
Project more looks like an attempt to keep Kylix alive so they have the
chance to possibly later get back to it.


>>Might be. Problem is: There is no free software comparable to Kylix.
>>
>
>Most the software I write nowadays are "for the web" and RAD does
>not have a so huge advantage in that segment. I'm plaing with
>Eclipse 3 on my scarse spare time and it looks promissing.


Well, yes, if you don't need Kylix, then you don't need Kylix ;)

Simon
Hi Simon,
first of all once again my general feedback on CrossKylix - Its the
greatest piece of software I installed for quite a time!
I am quite new to Linux and QT and managed to write my first
daemon/service crossplatform compiling from of the same code quite
quickly with CrossKylix. I love it!
But I also often think: Shouldn't I better use Java?
My question: How big is the chance that a Kylix 3 application will not
run on Linux with a future Kernel? The problems with kernel 2.6 could be
solved (by you!) - will this likely be the case with 2.8 and 3.0?
What is your personal opinion?
I hope Kylix will survive for the next 10 years!
Micha
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Simon Kissel wrote:
Quote
There currently are no official announcements for a new Kylix version.
Borland recently has launched the Kylix Community Project, which now is
pretty active in working on Kylix' future. I'm pretty confident now that
the future of the Kylix RTL/CLX is safe. The future of the Kylix IDE is
currently unknown, however.
I think it is a little unclear what is included in this project.
Do you know if there will be any improvements in the xml/soap/ws area?
- or is it in the 'Borland only' area?
--
Best regards
Stig Johansen
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Simon Kissel wrote:
Quote
So what are several Borland employees doing in the Community project
then? ;)
We don't know. Currently nothing significant was done.
Quote
>>I know it is a vicious circle/catch-22 sort of thing, but I need
>>some assurance that "investing" in them by buying their products
>>is a "wise thing to do" ;)
>>
>
>The best way to be sure is go free software.
Simon Kissel wrote:
Might be. Problem is: There is no free software comparable to Kylix.
It depends from point of view. :-)
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
Borland
recently has launched the Kylix Community Project, which now is pretty active
in working on Kylix' future. I'm pretty confident now that the future of the
Kylix RTL/CLX is safe. The future of the Kylix IDE is currently unknown,
however.
What is the opinion of the Community Project regarding using .NET on
Linux ?
Borland obviously is strongly committed to make Delphi a No. 1 tool for
.Net development. _Theoretically_ .NET assemblies are cross-platform,
unless the compiler, library or application programmer intentionally
includes platform dependent (propriety) elements. So Delphi _could_ be a
No. 1 Linux development tool in the future, no matter on what OS the IDE
runs. (Sounds a bit like Cross-Kylix :-) )
What about this ?
-Michael
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
first of all once again my general feedback on CrossKylix - Its the
greatest piece of software I installed for quite a time!
Thanks :)
Quote
But I also often think: Shouldn't I better use Java?
There are lot of areas, where Java is a pretty bad choice. If you are
doing high-performance server applications, Kylix-built applications
will perform and scale MUCH better. And if you are doing GUI applications,
your users are expecting a native-looking UI.
Quote
My question: How big is the chance that a Kylix 3 application will not
run on Linux with a future Kernel? The problems with kernel 2.6 could be
solved (by you!) - will this likely be the case with 2.8 and 3.0?
I need to clarify this: There never was a problem with the Kernel 2.6
kernel and Kylix-built applications. The problem was exec-shield, which
was integrated into the 2.6.8 kernel shipped by the Fedora project.
The Kylix rtl does not do direct Kernel calls, so it should never be
really affected by new kernel versions. The Kylix rtl binds against glibc.
Theoretically new glibc versions in future could introduce issues, but
as we have the source to Libc.pas, this is not really a problem.
Besides this, personally I hope to see a Kylix compiler update sooner
or later.
Quote
I hope Kylix will survive for the next 10 years!
Me too!
Simon
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
>Borland
>recently has launched the Kylix Community Project, which now is pretty active
>in working on Kylix' future. I'm pretty confident now that the future of the
>Kylix RTL/CLX is safe. The future of the Kylix IDE is currently unknown,
>however.

What is the opinion of the Community Project regarding using .NET on
Linux ?
As the project consists of different people with different opinions, I can't say
that ;)
I can tell you my personal opinion, though. I don't think mono will be a real
deployment option for the forseeable future. Actually, the past has shown
that Microsoft will make pretty sure Mono will never be able to catch up.
..net on Linux would become an option the day that all Linux distributions
by default ship and install a version of Mono that is more or less feature-
complete to the Windows .net Framework in its then current version. I doubt
we'll see this soon, if ever.
Simon
 

Re:Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
I think it is a little unclear what is included in this project.
Do you know if there will be any improvements in the xml/soap/ws area?
- or is it in the 'Borland only' area?
These things still are under discussion.
My hope is that there won't be any "Borland only" areas at all. And one
of the goals is to bring CLX on par with the current Windows VCL version,
and make it as compatbile to it as possible.
Simon