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kylix death ?


2005-04-30 04:41:48 AM
kylix0
I would like to be absolutely wrong. However: does kylix have a chance to
survive ? I posted the 27. of this month a question regarding kylix3 and
libc-2.3.4, up to now withouth answer, although it would be so easy to say
"sorry, kylix was designed for libc-2.3.3 and we are not planing further
developments", or " be a little patient, we are on the way" or something
like that. It is not only my specific question: if I see in the oficial
Borland Homepage that kylix3 ( open source, professional or enterprise) is
still recomended for SuSE 7.3, and in the meantime we have SuSE 9.3, a new
kernel 2.6.x, much more advanced libraries, different structures etc., I
get the impresion, that Borland has abandoned this field of activities. I
am very sad, as this very much remembers me on the last days of IBM's OS2,
also an excelent operational system, still working for some old, idealistic
last "mohicans".
I mean, I understand, if Borland does not more consider kylix a worhtwile
business. But why, in heavens sake, does Borland then not deliver the
source code of kylix as e.g. Netscape did with Mozilla? I am pretty sure,
that the Linux community would continue developing kylix to the state of
the art it deserves.
Or am I wrong ?
Kind regards,
Edgar
 
 

Re:kylix death ?

Borland doesn't seem to be willing to give an answer to these questions.
They don't even seem to give the FreeCLX Community Project a start by
blocking some vital (legal) questions. freeclx.sourceforge.net/
Most irritating: They're still selling the product.
We (most people in this forum) are tired of asking.
 

Re:kylix death ?

Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:
..
Quote
I mean, I understand, if Borland does not more consider kylix a worhtwile
business. But why, in heavens sake, does Borland then not deliver the
source code of kylix as e.g. Netscape did with Mozilla? I am pretty sure,
that the Linux community would continue developing kylix to the state of
the art it deserves.
Emotionally I better not speak my mind about Borland.. say no more! :((
They can't make Kylix OSS because most of their IP is locked into the
IDE and compiler source, which is still used in D7 - dunno about D2K5.
You know that most of the Kylix IDE is in fact a windows executable
running on wine?
OTOH my 'limited intuision' is telling me, that Borland is investigating
alternative business models for it's dev tools. Perhaps the IDE's will
become OSS and their main business will come from IDE plug-ins and
software Dev support tools.. (makes perfect sense!!!) anyways - Have to
wait and see.. Of course this is all completely unsubstantiated! please
do not quote me on this!
OTOOH I happily use Kylix on SUSE 9.2 and have become used to it's
limitations... I have not lost hope :)
siegs
 

{smallsort}

Re:kylix death ?

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:48:04 +0200, theo wrote:
Quote
Borland doesn't seem to be willing to give an answer to these questions.
They don't even seem to give the FreeCLX Community Project a start by
blocking some vital (legal) questions. freeclx.sourceforge.net/
Most irritating: They're still selling the product.


Thats a fact. I was in Fry's a couple of weeks ago and there on the shelf
was a whole stack of Kylix. It is almost like the shipping department at
Borland hasn't gotten the word that the product is dead. Can't figure out
just why they are continuing to distribute a product that is half baked
and guaranteed to{*word*211}off the retailer's customers and make big red check
marks against the Borland product line's name.
Mind you, I would be very happy for the product's revival, but have no
hope of it happening. I have long since moved on to Perl and TK.
krf
 

Re:kylix death ?

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:35:03 +0200, theo wrote:
Quote

>just why they are continuing to distribute a product that is half baked
>and guaranteed to{*word*211}off the retailer's customers and make big red
>check marks against the Borland product line's name.

Wait, Kylix 3 is's not THAT bad. I just suffers from lacking updates
which should be granted for a closed-source project on Linux.
I agree. It was pretty good, at least the pascal side - never did hear of
anyone getting the C++ side running. Certainly not me.
But, I didn't want to spend time and resources learning and developing in
an IDE that is apparently abandoned.
krf
 

Re:kylix death ?

Quote
just why they are continuing to distribute a product that is half baked
and guaranteed to{*word*211}off the retailer's customers and make big red check
marks against the Borland product line's name.
Wait, Kylix 3 is's not THAT bad. I just suffers from lacking updates
which should be granted for a closed-source project on Linux.
 

Re:kylix death ?

It is really hopeless. Kylix was the last chance for projects beeing
developed under pascal. Kylix can not more even be installed under new
linux systems. So, like it or not, we are forced to change over to C++
A farewell to long years of pascal development. I started with the famous
turbo pascal 3.1 long time ago. Where is Khan ?
At least, I would expect a clear statement from Borlands side.
I am sad
Edgar
 

Re:kylix death ?

Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:
Quote
Where is Khan ?
www.pegasus.com/team_philippe.htm
:-)
--
Regards,
Andreas Hausladen
 

Re:kylix death ?

Have you at least tried FreePascal( www.freepascal.org )? It
supports Delphi 5.x Syntax.
For the game stuff I am doing it works on Win32, Linux and FreeBSD and
others have it working on MacOS X as well.
Maybe be worth checking out before abandoning all your years of Object
Pascal investment.
Dominique
www.pascalgamedevelopment.com := go on, write a game instead;
Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:
Quote
It is really hopeless. Kylix was the last chance for projects beeing
developed under pascal. Kylix can not more even be installed under new
linux systems. So, like it or not, we are forced to change over to C++
A farewell to long years of pascal development. I started with the famous
turbo pascal 3.1 long time ago. Where is Khan ?

At least, I would expect a clear statement from Borlands side.
I am sad
Edgar
 

Re:kylix death ?

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:41:48 +0200, Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:
Quote
I would like to be absolutely wrong. However: does kylix have a chance to
survive ? I posted the 27. of this month a question regarding kylix3 and
libc-2.3.4, up to now withouth answer, although it would be so easy to say
"sorry, kylix was designed for libc-2.3.3 and we are not planing further
I spoke to someone in sales and she tells me that "as far as she knows",
there isn't going to be any further development or updates for Kylix 3,
although they would be all too happy to sell me the Enterprise version
for US$1900 or Professional for US$250 (not for sale through the Canadian
web sites). Which answers your question about not releasing source code
(below).
That being said, there must be a way to install old libs in Fedora Core 4
(FC4) that coexist with the new ones. The bummer however, is that they
really should have not used WINE and just provide their own glibc to link
to as part of the distro (this was done with WordPerfect up to version 8,
which is why it never seem to matter to these apps which version of Linux
you have).
I think it has dawned on the Kylix developers that if it is going to be
taken seriously as a development platform, they will have to move away
from WINE, and move everything to exclusively conventional linux-based
libraries, preferably statically-linked ones that come with the
distribution. It perhaps has dawned on them that this is going to be *a
lot* of work - basically you would have to raze Kylix to the ground and
rebuild it from the ground up. If you recall the original MSRP for Kylix 3
Pro was around US$1000 (it has come down a lot as of late). What would
they charge for an app that had that much *more* work put into it, where
the resulting stability would be as night is to day? They would likely
have to either not raise their price (in a small market, this may be at a
loss), or they would have to raise their price well beyond $1000 (for
Pro), thereby pricing themselves out of the market.
That is my opinion. I think the rewards behind developing Kylix on
static, native Linux libs are apparent, I have a feeling that they won't
see a profit in that realm until, say Kylix 5 or Kylix 6 comes out. And
when that happens, I doubt that these later Kylixes will be as compatable
with Delphi as Kylix 3 was to Delphi 6. It will become unique and distinct
from Delphi, simply because glibc will make certain routines easier for
them to write, but others will be more trouble. And your source code will
probably behave slightly differently because of the differences in the
underlying libraries.
Quote
developments", or " be a little patient, we are on the way" or something
like that. It is not only my specific question: if I see in the oficial
Borland Homepage that kylix3 ( open source, professional or enterprise) is
still recomended for SuSE 7.3, and in the meantime we have SuSE 9.3, a new
kernel 2.6.x, much more advanced libraries, different structures etc., I
get the impresion, that Borland has abandoned this field of activities. I
am very sad, as this very much remembers me on the last days of IBM's OS2,
also an excelent operational system, still working for some old, idealistic
last "mohicans".
I mean, I understand, if Borland does not more consider kylix a worhtwile
business. But why, in heavens sake, does Borland then not deliver the
source code of kylix as e.g. Netscape did with Mozilla? I am pretty sure,
that the Linux community would continue developing kylix to the state of
the art it deserves.

Or am I wrong ?

Kind regards,
Edgar
 

Re:kylix death ?

Bloke wrote:
Quote
I spoke to someone in sales and she tells me that "as far as she knows",
there isn't going to be any further development or updates for Kylix 3,
although they would be all too happy to sell me the Enterprise version
for US$1900 or Professional for US$250 (not for sale through the Canadian
web sites). Which answers your question about not releasing source code
It is a pitty. And it is unrealistic to asume a sales potential under such
circumstances.
Quote
The bummer however, is that they
really should have not used WINE and just provide their own glibc to link
to as part of the distro

I did not know that WINE issue. But now I get an idea about developers
problems. Well, it is an aditional argument for releasing the code. Also
the lack of perspectives for future sales
With all the inmanent problems and dificulties related, I am now moving
towards kdevelop/kdesigner on the basis of qt-3.4. It is never too late for
learning ;-)
Thank you very much for your contribution and your explanations
Edgar