Board index » kylix » Re: What distros do you all use?

Re: What distros do you all use?


2005-02-18 04:18:28 PM
kylix1
Quote
I think another .NET framework worthy of note would be the DotGNU
project with Portable.NET ( www.dotgnu.org/ )

Looks good !
I did know about DotGNU, but they seem to improve fast now.
Why is Mono so much more well known than DotGNU ? Why does Novell invest
in Mono instead of DotGNU (maybe GNU does not accept such help) ?
-Michael
 
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

Michael Schnell schrieb:
Quote
- D2005
Never used it. I do C# or D6 instead. (Don't have any legacy code flying
around I want to port to .NET)
Quote
- Kylix (don't bother :( )
Linux did not deserve it :-(
Quote
- cross Kylix
As long as my Kylix IDE is working on Linux, I'll use it. I can not
imagine debugging GUI applications with cross Kylix.. (I'm running Linux
most of the time now as I'm doing some Mono-hacking )
Quote
- Mono
It's amazing what can be done today using Mono - as platform
it's my choice for the future.
I really hope Borland will -someday- introduce a new Kylix version that
is targeted at mono/ms.NET plus that has the additional capability of
emitting native Linux-x86 executables. (AFAIK there exists a C# wrapper
for QT, so this should be implementable.)
But given that D2005 does not even support the compact framwork I doubt
we will ever see such a beast.
Quote
- other .NET frameworks
Can't say much about the GNU one (other than AFAIK it does not have the
exact same goals as Mono and IIRC they used some mono code at one point)
or MS Rotor. The MS .NET framework is still miles ahead of mono, but
OTOH it's Windows only.
From the basic design I think it's better than Java, where you really
depend on working devirtualization, escape analysis and other JIT
optimizations: .NET does not need this so desperately.
Quote
- Chrome
Another Pascal dialect. Don't know why I should try it.
Quote
- Python
I'm using it for building my C files (SCons instead of automake). Quite
nice. But GUI applications?
Quote
- C#
Almost Delphi. Don't like the constructors, the lack of real
meta-classes and the limited Indexers, but I can live with that.
Willi
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

Quote
>- Chrome

Another Pascal dialect. Don't know why I should try it.

As a Kylix replacement for porting Delphi applications to Linux.
Quote
>- Python

I'm using it for building my C files (SCons instead of automake). Quite
nice. But GUI applications?

Oh yes ! I was told by a friend (an old Delphi boy) that it's _at_least_
as good as Delphi as a GUI Project design tool. There even are several
games written in Python with support of the graphic card rendering
engine and all. (Games are just GUI without productive function :) )
Thanks for your comments,
-Michael
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

On 2005-02-17, Michael Schnell < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
>No experience, but it doesn't attract me.

For a long time I keep hearing positive comments on same, but I never
considered trying it. Now a friend of mine who is porting an old Turbo
Pascal project to a new Window/Linux version did many tests with Python
in the last week and is absolutely enthusiastic about it.

As Python is an interpreter you need to do some procedures that need to
be very fast (he does a graphics editor) in a native language. Python
supports ANSI C and C++ out of the box. He is just busy trying to enable
Free Pascal (that uses the ANSI C interface) here.
That's quit cool. I wrote the Free Pascal Unix layer, and I'm not aware of
an ANSI C interface :-)
ANSI C is a language standard. An ANSI C interface means purely in the form
of C (header) declarations, and FPC (and to my knowledge Kylix too) can't
read arbitrary C headers, but need conversions. (and lets not forget that
GCC is heavily extended) e.g. two ansi C conformant compilers can not
necessarily link to eachother. Sometimes even the same compiler but
different versions are incompatible (like most GCC versions that differ
more than 0.2)
I guess he meant that FPC can link to certain gcc versions?
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

On 2005-02-17, Clint Herron < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
>>- other .NET frameworks
>
>
>.NET only for Windows for now. Doesn't solve any problems for me at the
>.moment.
>

I think another .NET framework worthy of note would be the DotGNU
project with Portable.NET ( www.dotgnu.org/ )

Just wanted to make y'all aware.

They're also progressing in the System.Windows.Forms area, and they seem
to be more cross-processor than Mono currently is (Portable.NET runs
nicely on everything from i386 to PPC to StrongARM)
To make it complete, there is also Rotor, BSD licensed and reference implementation
from Microsoft. Afaik pretty basic only.
However if Microsoft releases System.Windows.Forms, it might be the first to
have it working (since prepp'ed by Microsoft, they can launch a new version
that same day)
However since all these .NET cmdline compilers can't reuse arbitrary VS.NET apps,
I don't really see the use.
Nearly every portable binary compiler (gcc,fpc) supports the same archs and many more,
and require specially crafted sources too.
Java went the way of providing portable GUI apps with one source, but the apps are slow and
have non-native feel. I'm afraid this will go for a e.g. Windows.forms app on OS X too.
So in deciding .NET of not, for me, portability is relatively unimportant, and the above remark
was meant about other aspects of .NET.
I don't really see other advantages of .NET for my current work. I don't do
much distributed besides classic3-tier and client-server. The other
possible thing would be (and this is visible in D2005, I think, with e.g.
live data everwhere) is that the managed environment is more friendly to
IDEs.
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

Quote

I guess he meant that FPC can link to certain gcc versions?

Right. While Free pascal does not link to GNU C++ units due to different
interface (called ABI ?) Free pascal is said to link to GNU (ANSI ?) C,
as the same calling conventions can be used. The idea is that as Python
can integrate GNU C function, it should be able to integrate Free pascal
functions as well.
Do you agree on that ?
Thanks for clarification.
-Michael
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

On 2005-02-18, Michael Schnell < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
>
>I guess he meant that FPC can link to certain gcc versions?
>

Right. While Free pascal does not link to GNU C++ units due to different
interface (called ABI ?)
Yes. BI=binary interface
Quote
Free pascal is said to link to GNU (ANSI ?) C,
There are multiple things involved:
- gcc
- (g)libc (since C code must keep access to it)
- startupcode (typically by OS maker)
- CPU/OS specific mods. (ABI is per arch per OS per definition)
All these are version dependant and only is defined for certain versions.
On Linux, changes by distro makers can also cause breakage. (gentoo is particularly notorious)
This is of course a horrible matrix, but nowadays for plain C (contrary to C++) fairly static.
Typical C ABI variations between OSes and archs are:
- prefixing symbol names with _ or not.
- passing small records by value in regs.
- passing of floating point values (stack, in fpu reg, in SSE regs, both in FPU and in integer etc)
Quote
as the same calling conventions can be used. The idea is that as Python
can integrate GNU C function, it should be able to integrate Free pascal
functions as well.
Do you agree on that ?
There is potential yes.
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

Quote

So anyway, what flavors work well for y'all?

I use Fedora Core 2, but I donīt really use kylix a lot, just too a look at
the open edition and it works. My boss usualy needs Windows programs,
thought thatīs going to change because Iīm about to enter a development team
for a screen reader for blind and visualy inpaired people for Linux.
Also, I still use Delphi 5 (it is as reliable as it is old :P ), witch is
prior to Kylix.
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

Michael Schnell wrote:
[...]
Quote
Why is Mono so much more well known than DotGNU ? Why does Novell invest
in Mono instead of DotGNU (maybe GNU does not accept such help) ?
Maybe because it's theirs? In order to participate to GNU projects you
have to transfer to the FSF your intellectual property rights.
Cheers,
--
Nicola Musatti
Team Thai Kingdom
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

On 2005-02-19, Nicola Musatti < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
Michael Schnell wrote:
[...]
>Why is Mono so much more well known than DotGNU ? Why does Novell invest
>in Mono instead of DotGNU (maybe GNU does not accept such help) ?

Maybe because it's theirs? In order to participate to GNU projects you
have to transfer to the FSF your intellectual property rights.
One can also turn this around? Why didn't GNU participate in mono, instead of
starting up their own? QT vs GTK all over again.
 

Re:Re: What distros do you all use?

Marco van de Voort wrote:
Quote
On 2005-02-19, Nicola Musatti < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:

>Michael Schnell wrote:
>[...]
>
>>Why is Mono so much more well known than DotGNU ? Why does Novell invest
>>in Mono instead of DotGNU (maybe GNU does not accept such help) ?
>
>Maybe because it's theirs? In order to participate to GNU projects you
>have to transfer to the FSF your intellectual property rights.


One can also turn this around? Why didn't GNU participate in mono, instead of
starting up their own? QT vs GTK all over again.
Or give up on Hurd to concentrate on Linux (oh, sorry, GNU/Linux) for
that matter.
Cheers,
--
Nicola Musatti
Team Thai Kingdom