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Dear Borland's!


2003-11-08 02:41:19 AM
kylix0
Hello,
your Kylix is the perfect solution for your big big "Delphi" Community to go
to Linux !!!!
Please, don't give it up!!!
WE NEED ITTTTTTTTTTT !!
In future more and more ....,
A lot of companies are in the phase now, to decide to go to LINUX, and we
all
know why ....
Don't forget us, because we (the Delphi-developers)
never forgott Borland!
Best Regards
Gerhard Knapp
(TurboPascal 3.0, Delphi 1 .... and i hope next year Delphi 8, and
Kylix 4)
 
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

Maybe the borland guys must get the IBM Cds about linux market growt,
this came to me yesterday and is very very promising. Is impossible for
clients deploy linux in the desktop if office suites (available yet) and
vertical apps are not ready, is necesary build for the near future and
not wait to the "future" because when the linux in the desktop&server
are strong for us can be late to ship products...
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

"Gerhard Knapp" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
Quote
Hello,
your Kylix is the perfect solution for your big big "Delphi" Community
to go to Linux !!!!

Please, don't give it up!!!
WE NEED ITTTTTTTTTTT !!
I agree.
And IMO, Borland should also not forget that those who use Delphi, and
need a cross-platform environment might choose another - perhaps non-
Borland - tool on Windows, too.
Quote
In future more and more ....,

A lot of companies are in the phase now, to decide to go to LINUX, and
we all
know why ....
It's a process. On the server-side Linux is definitly strong. On the
client, it still may take some time. But why wait for the Desktop?
Delphi/Kylix is nice for app-server development, too.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Dear Borland's!

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 19:41:19 +0100, Gerhard Knapp wrote:
Quote
Hello,
your Kylix is the perfect solution for your big big "Delphi" Community to go
to Linux !!!!

Please, don't give it up!!!
WE NEED ITTTTTTTTTTT !!

In future more and more ....,

A lot of companies are in the phase now, to decide to go to LINUX, and we
all
know why ....

Yeah, Borland has stuck with Linux for a long time and now Linux is really
starting to take off. Unfortunately, they remind me of the person who
held on to that plot of swampland for years and finally got fed up and
dumped it for a song - just before oil was discovered underneath it and
Disney announced a major theme park next door.
K
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

On 11/08/03 06:28 +0900, Andreas Prucha wrote:
Quote
"Gerhard Knapp" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
news:3fabe7a7$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM :

>Hello,
>your Kylix is the perfect solution for your big big "Delphi" Community
>to go to Linux !!!!
>
>Please, don't give it up!!!
>WE NEED ITTTTTTTTTTT !!

I agree.
I do, too. I love being able to leverage my TP7/Delphi skills on
Linux. Now I just need to find a North American retailer that's
willing to overlook Borland's shipping restrictions. I sure won't
buy Pro locally in Tokyo with a street price of ~US$620.
Quote
It's a process. On the server-side Linux is definitly strong. On the
client, it still may take some time. But why wait for the Desktop?
Delphi/Kylix is nice for app-server development, too.
The striking thing -- for me, at least, is that the Linux desktop
is SERIOUSLY robust when compared to, say, WinMe. Frankly, I
really don't understand this "isn't ready for the desktop" claim.
The only reason I boot to Windows (for personal use) these days
is because there are apps there for which there are no
equivalents that I've found on Linux. Apps that I really want to
see ported/cloned:
* Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro
* Cakewalk Pyro 2003
* WinDVD
Missing apps are the end-user problem on Linux. And that, folks,
is precisely what Kylix is all about solving.
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
// mp3.com/trane_francks/
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

Trane Francks < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
Quote
On 11/08/03 06:28 +0900, Andreas Prucha wrote:

>"Gerhard Knapp" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
>news:3fabe7a7$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM :
>
>>Hello,
>>your Kylix is the perfect solution for your big big "Delphi"
>>Community to go to Linux !!!!
>>
>>Please, don't give it up!!!
>>WE NEED ITTTTTTTTTTT !!
>
>I agree.

I do, too. I love being able to leverage my TP7/Delphi skills on
Linux. Now I just need to find a North American retailer that's
willing to overlook Borland's shipping restrictions. I sure won't
buy Pro locally in Tokyo with a street price of ~US$620.
You can also try a European seller. And what about international
web-shops like amazon? Amazon sells Kylix pro for about EUR 313 (In US$
it's about the same) in Austria.
Quote
The striking thing -- for me, at least, is that the Linux desktop
is SERIOUSLY robust when compared to, say, WinMe. Frankly, I
really don't understand this "isn't ready for the desktop" claim.
I do not think that it is about stability. IMO it's more how easy the
machine is to configure. Here, Windows is a little bit easier at the
first glance, but when it comes to more complex setups, I do not see a
big difference.
Quote
Missing apps are the end-user problem on Linux. And that, folks,
is precisely what Kylix is all about solving.
Yep. The developer seem to wait for the market, and the market waits for
the developers.
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

Quote
>It's a process. On the server-side Linux is definitly strong. On the
>client, it still may take some time. But why wait for the Desktop?
>Delphi/Kylix is nice for app-server development, too.
TF>The striking thing -- for me, at least, is that the Linux desktop
TF>is SERIOUSLY robust when compared to, say, WinMe.
Wrong comparsion.... compare with W'2K/XP. Linux desktop less robust than
that pair.
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

On 11/08/03 12:10 +0900, Andreas Prucha wrote:
Quote
Trane Francks < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM :
Grias di, Andreas.
Quote
>Linux. Now I just need to find a North American retailer that's
>willing to overlook Borland's shipping restrictions. I sure won't
>buy Pro locally in Tokyo with a street price of ~US$620.

You can also try a European seller. And what about international
web-shops like amazon? Amazon sells Kylix pro for about EUR 313 (In US$
it's about the same) in Austria.
Hmmmm. That's an interesting prospect. That would bring my cost
down to ~35,000 yen from 68,000 yen. Even more interesting is
that I could have Amazon UK deliver to my office in Graz (yes,
THAT Graz). I could then pick up the next time I travel there --
no duties and very cheap shipping. Hmmmm.
Quote
I do not think that it is about stability. IMO it's more how easy the
machine is to configure. Here, Windows is a little bit easier at the
first glance, but when it comes to more complex setups, I do not see a
big difference.
I completely agree.
Quote
>Missing apps are the end-user problem on Linux. And that, folks,
>is precisely what Kylix is all about solving.

Yep. The developer seem to wait for the market, and the market waits for
the developers.
It was precisely this waiting game, IMO, that killed OS/2.
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
// mp3.com/trane_francks/
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

On 11/08/03 14:40 +0900, Ender wrote:
Quote
TF>The striking thing -- for me, at least, is that the Linux desktop
TF>is SERIOUSLY robust when compared to, say, WinMe.

Wrong comparsion.... compare with W'2K/XP. Linux desktop less robust than
that pair.
It's not an incorrect comparison. ME was widely distributed.
Modern XFree releases mated to KDE perform very well in
comparison. If you want to be obtuse, go knock yourself out
comparing XP and QNX. That ought to keep you busy for a while.
:)
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
// mp3.com/trane_francks/
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

Trane Francks < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in news:3fac8923
@newsgroups.borland.com:
Quote
On 11/08/03 12:10 +0900, Andreas Prucha wrote:

>Trane Francks < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
>news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM :

Grias di, Andreas.
Servas!
Quote
Hmmmm. That's an interesting prospect. That would bring my cost
down to ~35,000 yen from 68,000 yen. Even more interesting is
that I could have Amazon UK deliver to my office in Graz (yes,
THAT Graz). I could then pick up the next time I travel there --
no duties and very cheap shipping. Hmmmm.
Well, amazon.at has the English version, too, so I guess that there is no
need to use amazon.uk.
Quote
>I do not think that it is about stability. IMO it's more how easy the
>machine is to configure. Here, Windows is a little bit easier at the
>first glance, but when it comes to more complex setups, I do not see a
>big difference.

I completely agree.
Yep, I think the first steps are not easy enough for the average home-
users.
Quote

It was precisely this waiting game, IMO, that killed OS/2.

Yep, lack of applications was one reason. Another reason - which IMO also
caused the lack of applications - was IBM's "we are a enterprise-level
company"-attitude. While MS gave the SDKs virtually for free, IBMs
attitude was more that the developer should consider it a privilege to be
allowed to develop for OS/2. Borland IMO makes similar mistakes at the
moment. It's getting better, but the Pizza mistakes are IMO not
completely fixed, yet.
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

TF>>>The striking thing -- for me, at least, is that the Linux desktop
TF>>>is SERIOUSLY robust when compared to, say, WinMe.
Quote
>Wrong comparsion.... compare with W'2K/XP. Linux desktop less robust
>than that pair.
TF>It's not an incorrect comparison. ME was widely distributed.
And what? One of my familiar guys once show to me statistic he gathered from
the logs of few web sites. Pretty good for estimate what OS used for
desktops, ok? Most widely distributed was of course Windows 98 & ME, almost
equal. Second, about third of W'98 is Windows 2000. Slightly (surprisingly)
less than Windows 2000 was Windows XP. Then goes Linux, almost 10 times less
than Windows XP. Other OS'es about 10 times less than Linux. So, W'XP is
closest to Linux in terms of widespread.
TF>Modern XFree releases mated to KDE perform very well in comparison.
I'm actively use both W'XP and ALT Linux & Linux MDK 8.2/9.1 with KDE 3.x
and X-Free 4.2. For development, daily work, internet surfing, listening
music and so on... typical desktop things. Windows XP also for games. I'm
specially counted number of hangups for one year. Windows XP has 5 hangups,
Linux 6. All 5 with Windows XP was in games. 3 in Linux was during
development & debugging sessions (with Kylix of course). Two was when KDE
magically crashed with X-es, just on simple action like desktop switching or
window opening. One - unknown, i returned to my workplace and noticed that
PC just hang.
One thing, my D-Link winmodem few times seems to broke something inside
itself and refuse to call to ISP, so i was forced to shutdown PC and turn it
off/on to restore modem functionality. Don't know how Linux may react on
that situation.
TF>If you want to be obtuse, go knock yourself out comparing XP and
TF>QNX. That ought to keep you busy for a while.
TF>:)
No way. You don't scare me with QNX. Touched it several times, but actually
don't know where i need to use it. :-) So i decide for myself that modern
Windows almost equally stable as modern Linuxes. But i never lost my work
under Windows XP, and few times lost my work under Linux.
When one say that Windows is not robust versus Linux as desktop i think that
he:
1. does not work (or just not familiar enough) with latest Windows 2K/XP.
2. under term "Windows" understand W'9x/ME series.
3. play too much windows games
4. troll
5. young kUlhazkeR who can only nuke poor W'9x with downloaded from Internet
program and scream "Windows mustide"! ;-)
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

On 11/09/03 00:54 +0900, Andreas Prucha wrote:
Quote
Servas!
:-)
Quote
Well, amazon.at has the English version, too, so I guess that there is no
need to use amazon.uk.
Actually, ordering from Amazon UK works out to about EUR278, so
it's somewhat less expensive, even including shipping.
Quote
company"-attitude. While MS gave the SDKs virtually for free, IBMs
attitude was more that the developer should consider it a privilege to be
allowed to develop for OS/2. Borland IMO makes similar mistakes at the
Interesting. I never got into developing on OS/2. I tried the
demo version of TMT Pascal ~8 years ago, but it was difficult for
me to use anything other than the Borland Turbo syntax, which was
not well supported by TMT. (That seems to have changed by now.)
Quote
moment. It's getting better, but the Pizza mistakes are IMO not
completely fixed, yet.
Mmmmm, pizza. ;^)
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
// mp3.com/trane_francks/
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

On 11/09/03 02:09 +0900, Ender wrote:
Quote
TF>It's not an incorrect comparison. ME was widely distributed.

And what? One of my familiar guys once show to me statistic he gathered from
the logs of few web sites. Pretty good for estimate what OS used for
desktops, ok? Most widely distributed was of course Windows 98 & ME, almost
And what? And nothing. It isn't germane to my comment that Linux
is robust.
Quote
than Windows XP. Other OS'es about 10 times less than Linux. So, W'XP is
closest to Linux in terms of widespread.
Market share does not determine the robustness or worth of an
operating system.
Quote
specially counted number of hangups for one year. Windows XP has 5 hangups,
Linux 6. All 5 with Windows XP was in games. 3 in Linux was during
We have different user experiences. I can't remember the last
time I hung either W2k or Linux. It's been more than a year since
I've crashed either of them. Since I'm behind a firewall, I run a
telnet server on my Linux box. Telnetting into the box to clean
up a frozen desktop is a great feature. That may be possible on
the Windows systems, but I can't run unnecessary processes on
clean test machines.
Quote
One thing, my D-Link winmodem few times seems to broke something inside
itself and refuse to call to ISP, so i was forced to shutdown PC and turn it
off/on to restore modem functionality. Don't know how Linux may react on
that situation.
Probably pretty well. Every once in a while, one of the SCSI
disks on my system goes strange and refuses to reset. Aside from
the Adaptec driver filling the logs with messages, I've always
been able to shutdown gracefully. Since Linux hasn't cleanly
unmounted the volume, it gets fsck'd on the next reboot. I don't
know about 2k and XP, but ME on this same system blue screens
when that disk goes strange.
Quote
No way. You don't scare me with QNX. Touched it several times, but actually
don't know where i need to use it. :-) So i decide for myself that modern
Try running something like a nuclear power plant.
Quote
Windows almost equally stable as modern Linuxes. But i never lost my work
under Windows XP, and few times lost my work under Linux.
I work the same way under any operating system: if I stop typing
long enough to think, I save my work. If I were to lose work, it
would amount to only a few lines.
Quote
When one say that Windows is not robust versus Linux as desktop i think that
he:
1. does not work (or just not familiar enough) with latest Windows 2K/XP.
2. under term "Windows" understand W'9x/ME series.
3. play too much windows games
4. troll
5. young kUlhazkeR who can only nuke poor W'9x with downloaded from Internet
program and scream "Windows mustide"! ;-)
You're right, but that wasn't what I originally wrote. I wrote
that I didn't understand the "not ready for the desktop" idea and
that I find Linux to be a seriously robust desktop. What I wrote
had nothing to do with Windows whatsoever.
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
// mp3.com/trane_francks/
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

Trane Francks wrote:
Quote

We have different user experiences. I can't remember the last time I
hung either W2k or Linux.
Yikes. I'm always{*word*154} linux through my own experimentation.
Several times today while attempting to use Lazarus I hung my system,
forcing a reboot. The combination of Libranet linux (Debian
testing/unstable mix) running Icewm and Lazarus just doesn't work. When
I run Lazarus under Gnome 2.4 it works well. (Lazarus beginner, of
course, so it could be all my fault)
 

Re:Dear Borland's!

I'm saying same. It will be more accurate to compare robustness of Linux
with OS that has nearest widespread, closest in terms of time and has more
common features with Linux that other old {*word*99}.
Quote
>specially counted number of hangups for one year. Windows XP has 5
>hangups,
>Linux 6. All 5 with Windows XP was in games. 3 in Linux was during
TF>We have different user experiences. I can't remember the last time
TF>I hung either W2k or Linux. It's been more than a year since
TF>I've crashed either of them. Since I'm behind a firewall, I run a
TF>telnet server on my Linux box. Telnetting into the box to clean up
TF>a frozen desktop is a great feature.
Unfortunately, it is completely has no matter. When X subsystem crashed,
your desktop apps also crashed.
Quote
>One thing, my D-Link winmodem few times seems to broke something
>inside itself and refuse to call to ISP, so i was forced to shutdown
>PC and turn it off/on to restore modem functionality. Don't know how
>Linux may react on that situation.
TF>Probably pretty well. Every once in a while, one of the SCSI disks
TF>on my system goes strange and refuses to reset. Aside from the
TF>Adaptec driver filling the logs with messages, I've always been
TF>able to shutdown gracefully. Since Linux hasn't cleanly unmounted
TF>the volume, it gets fsck'd on the next reboot. I don't know about
TF>2k and XP,
2K and XP has same behavior, you may shutdown gracefully then it
automatically check drives. And they has that behavior from the 1996 when
they was named NT 4.0. ;-)
TF>but ME on this same system blue screens when that disk goes strange.
I told you, you selected wrong "opponent" for Linux.
Quote
>No way. You don't scare me with QNX. Touched it several times, but
>actually don't know where i need to use it. :-) So i decide for
>myself that modern
TF>Try running something like a nuclear power plant.
Thanks. When i will work on nuclear power plant i remember your suggestion.
;-)
Quote
>Windows almost equally stable as modern Linuxes. But i never lost my
>work under Windows XP, and few times lost my work under Linux.
TF>I work the same way under any operating system: if I stop typing
TF>long enough to think, I save my work. If I were to lose work, it
TF>would amount to only a few lines.
Happy man. :-) Eventually when pegasus and muses come down to me, i may type
about 300..400 lines of code on one breath. And crashed X'es is very
disgusting thing.
Quote
>When one say that Windows is not robust versus Linux as desktop i
>think that he:
>1. does not work (or just not familiar enough) with latest Windows
>2K/XP.
>2. under term "Windows" understand W'9x/ME series.
>3. play too much windows games
>4. troll
>5. young kUlhazkeR who can only nuke poor W'9x with downloaded from
>Internet program and scream "Windows mustide"! ;-)
TF>You're right, but that wasn't what I originally wrote. I wrote that
TF>I didn't understand the "not ready for the desktop" idea and that I
TF>find Linux to be a seriously robust desktop. What I wrote had
TF>nothing to do with Windows whatsoever.
Not ready for the desktop - means level of required qualification of user
enough to use OS and GUI is too high for ordinary home user. Because you is
programmer and basically expirienced user, your opinion "ready for the
desktop" does not count.
Example 1: once i installed Linux Mandrake 9.2 with default installations
settings i tried to launch Licq. I clicked on appropriate item of system
menu but nothing happens. Completely. I don't see any reaction of my PC on
my click. How average John or Jane should react on that? In windows at least
they see error message and use information from that message try to fix
itself or call to friend and tell about error message, so friend can suggest
something. What with Linux? User should guess that program output something
on console, but KDE won't show output. User should guess to open console.
Then it should guess how to run that Licq (often programs does not have name
of executable precisely equal to string in the menu), then read some cryptic
message that licq KDE GUI module is not installed. Then install it with
package manager (well, not very simple task also) or rpm or urpmi.
Example 2: I trying to listen music from the machine of my colleague. The
url to the file is something like.
host.domain.com/music/mp3/Engima/The Screen Behind The
Mirror/03-Gravity of Love.mp3. User that copied link in the WMP's "Open URL"
window has no problems, user that copied link in XMMS "Open URL" window
should guess that all spaces should be replaced by %20 or XMMS won't open
URL, and it should do this manually.
There are many examples where we may see that Linux still not enough good
for desktop. For very expirienced users - maybe yes, but not for most of
users.