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Re: Will there be another Kylix version?


2003-09-29 10:28:14 PM
kylix0
"WMueller" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news:3f68bd00$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
as far as I experienced it today, Kylix will not be developed furthermore.
I received probably the same newsletter today from Borland as you did
(with the announcement of C++BuilderX)
So I called the German Sales Department and they acknowledged that Kylix
3 is definetly the last Version.
All we really need on Linux is an Object Pascal compiler (with source),
to be maintained by the community. That would have never happened with Kylix.
Any successful closed source commercial development tools on Linux?
The community could then create an IDE, like what is happening with the SharpDevelop
project for C# (icsharpcode.net).
So the question is, is there any Delphi compatible OpenSource Pascal compiler?
It seems the upcoming FreePascal 2.0 has a lot of Delphi features, but how
compatible is it in practice?
Karl
 
 

Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

Quote
All we really need on Linux is an Object Pascal compiler (with source),
to be maintained by the community. That would have never happened with Kylix.
There is: Free Pascal. Even though there are excellent people on it it
seems quite sleepy.
Quote
Any successful closed source commercial development tools on Linux?
Supposedly not. But with the evolving "CIL" movement (".Net" in
Microsoft speak), making desktop software platform independent (being
executed by a <precompiling>standard virtual processor/desktop
environment running on e.g. Windows and <via Mono or .GNU>on Linux) we
might be seeing a lot more (platform independent) commercial/closed
source software including development tools.
Quote

The community could then create an IDE, like what is happening with the SharpDevelop
project for C# (icsharpcode.net).
For Free Pascal this project is called "Lazarus". I never used it, but
last time I looked it was early pre Beta state
Quote

So the question is, is there any Delphi compatible OpenSource Pascal compiler?
It seems the upcoming FreePascal 2.0 has a lot of Delphi features, but how
compatible is it in practice?

Last time I checked Free Pascal it lacked a message scheduler and thus
any multi tasking and inter task communication. I added some code to
enable this in a Delphi compatible way and donated it to the community.
There was not much reaction. It did not work reliably, as there were
some reentrancy problems with the memory allocation the supporter of
these functions would need to solve.
-Michael
 

Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

"Michael Schnell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
>All we really need on Linux is an Object Pascal compiler (with source),
>to be maintained by the community. That would have never happened with Kylix.

There is: Free Pascal. Even though there are excellent people on it it
seems quite sleepy.
Yes, as long as most Delphi users on Linux look to Borland, this
won't get much activity, I am afraid ...
Quote

>Any successful closed source commercial development tools on Linux?

Supposedly not. But with the evolving "CIL" movement (".Net" in
Microsoft speak), making desktop software platform independent (being
executed by a <precompiling>standard virtual processor/desktop
environment running on e.g. Windows and <via Mono or .GNU>on Linux) we
might be seeing a lot more (platform independent) commercial/closed
source software including development tools.
Well, did you read Martin Waldenburg's message in the .net preview group?
It seems the Mono guys are soliciting help to make Delphi generated
output run on Mono.
Quote
>So the question is, is there any Delphi compatible OpenSource Pascal compiler?
>It seems the upcoming FreePascal 2.0 has a lot of Delphi features, but how
>compatible is it in practice?
>

Last time I checked Free Pascal it lacked a message scheduler and thus
any multi tasking and inter task communication. I added some code to
enable this in a Delphi compatible way and donated it to the community.
There was not much reaction. It did not work reliably, as there were
some reentrancy problems with the memory allocation the supporter of
these functions would need to solve.
Thanks for the info,
Karl
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

"Karl Waclawek" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Yes, as long as most Delphi users on Linux look to Borland, this
won't get much activity, I am afraid ...
Open Source all the way appears to be the most (and perhaps the only)
practical approach for both development and distribution of any Linux
desktop product. As Kylix shows, bucking this trend is fraught with
headaches.
 

Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

Quote

Well, did you read Martin Waldenburg's message in the .net preview group?
It seems the Mono guys are soliciting help to make Delphi generated
output run on Mono.
Of course. I already got an answer. A group for testing Borland CIL
compilers against Mono and suggesting improvements to either site seems
to be forming. Sounds like good news.
-Michael
 

Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

Karl Waclawek wrote:
Quote

"WMueller" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:3f68bd00$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>as far as I experienced it today, Kylix will not be developed
>furthermore. I received probably the same newsletter today from Borland
>as you did (with the announcement of C++BuilderX)
>So I called the German Sales Department and they acknowledged that Kylix
>3 is definetly the last Version.

So the question is, is there any Delphi compatible OpenSource Pascal
compiler? It seems the upcoming FreePascal 2.0 has a lot of Delphi
features, but how compatible is it in practice?

Karl
I hav not used this understand, but there is the Cantebury Pascal that will
compile to Java JVM code, you might want to take a look at.
www.webcom.com/mhc/pas3release.html
 

Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

Quote
The community could then create an IDE, like what is happening with the
SharpDevelop
project for C# (icsharpcode.net).
see lazarus.freepascal.org
/Thomas
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Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

Then try to write a web server server application
using dbexpress and see how it eats all the memory
in a few days because of the memory holes.
or see how some of the basic things are not working
with databases.
Then check the QualityCentral reports back 2 years
and realize that those bugs are well known and not
fixed until today.
Plus isn't it quite frustrating that soon you will have
to work with Linux distributions not even supported
anymore or that you cannot use the latest ones because
the last version supported is 2-3 years old?
Isn't it suspicious when teamB and Borland employees
themselves say to customers in the newsgroups to
use 3rd party db drivers if Borlands' not working?
I think that people is rightfully very pissed off
how Borland handled Kylix. Why did they pay big
bucks for Kylix Enterprise if the features promised
are not even working and the found bugs not fixed?
I am personaly speaking from my own experience when
I cite examples here. But you can check all these
newsgroups for earlier posts and see that there are
a lot of people having serious problems with Kylix.
WMueller wrote:
Quote
BoBo wrote:

>What do you expect from a product with full of serious bugs and no bug
>fixes for years?
>Just check the QC bug reports for bugs going back as far as two years...
>They did not release the source for dbExpress which would have been
>fixed within days by the community. And this is just one example.
>

Was it really that serious ? I know Kylix for just four weeks now. After
a lot of Problems with trying to install it on SuSe 8.2 I decided to
follow the Borland limit of SuSe 7.3
After that, my several little experimental applications worked well, so
far. ( C++ Version with third party Oracle Access Components)
But I can not really claim to have challenged it :-))




 

Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

B>Then try to write a web server server application using dbexpress and
B>see how it eats all the memory in a few days because of the memory
B>holes.
For mine that period was less than hour. :-)
 

Re:Re: Will there be another Kylix version?

Michael Schnell wrote:
Quote
>
>I think you're right. I'm looking at a bid now for 50+ linux desktops
>that will need two custom apps written for them. I'd like to use Kylix,
>but I think we're going to have to bid it with a GNOME>GTK>GLADE
>package...

Did you consider using D8 to write CIL code and have it run on Linux via
Mono ?

You should ask questions and promote that way in
borland.public.delphi.netpreview.non-technical.

-Michael
Be prepared for a lot of rewrites and hope that MS does not pull the plug on
Mono.