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Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??


2003-12-05 01:39:36 PM
kylix1
On 12/05/03 12:30 +0900, pNichols wrote:
Quote
difficult, akin to C#. Coming from VB (at least most of the VBers I have
encountered), a major task <G>.
VB smacks of an event-driven procedural language. Which, BTW, I
confess suits my mental processes just fine. As wrong as it may
be, I program in Delphi and Kylix the same way. (I never grew out
of being a TP programmer.)
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
 
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

On 12/05/03 14:16 +0900, pNichols wrote:
Quote
JQP wrote:

>"pNichols" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>Why don't you ever give empirical evidence to back up your audacious
>>statements? You are quick to criticize what you do not know and have
>>never used. That is not judgment according to knowledge, but rather the
>>reverse.
>
>I never used VB. Didn't need to waste my time using it to know and
>understand that it was a mess that I wanted to avoid. The evidence was
>readily available; in the press, in conversations with programmers who did
>use it on a daily basis. No formal study, survey or white paper required.
>
Then how can you possibly do an honest evalaution of VB? All you can do is
regurgitate someone else's real or perceived bias.

I have used it, and found it wanting, but my observation was based upon real
experience, not some self proclaimed "experts" opinion.
Like many others who have used VB extensively, I find it a
productive language. Sure, there are gotchas, but it works very
well for what I write (GUI special measurement device
interfaces). It just goes to show you that YMMV. Since I'm still
a TP programmer at heart, VB's event-driven procedural style was
a natural for me. I program in Delphi and Kylix the same way. My
Bad. ;^)
Quote
>I never really used Kylix either. I knew it was a bad idea ---
>proprietary
>desktop product in the Linux market. It had failure written all over it
>from the start but that never stopped you and others from urging Borland
>on with it.
>
So how do you know your evaluation is correct? This is the same as saying,
"I do not like fish, so and so told me it tasted bad, but I have never
tried it."
Exactly. I don't expect the logic of your statement will sink in,
however.
Quote
>And I don't use Java either and have no intention of doing so. I've
>learned about all I need to know from the press, from watching Sun's
>management of it and from talking with the Java programmers that I know,
>most of whom don't seem to be nearly as in love with it as you.
>

I would have to say that your post and statements reveal quite the opposite.

You have posted in the past that Java is finished, Linux has no marketshare,
and that XPlatform is not important.
I've said it before; JQP is a troll. A killfiled one at that.
Quote
So is Brazil, Germany, educational institutions here and abroad, Wal
Street, the banking industry, and the two of the largest Enterprise IT
Wal Street? Are you a bassist? :-)
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

Trane Francks wrote:
Quote
On 12/05/03 12:30 +0900, pNichols wrote:

>difficult, akin to C#. Coming from VB (at least most of the VBers I have
>encountered), a major task <G>.

VB smacks of an event-driven procedural language. Which, BTW, I
confess suits my mental processes just fine. As wrong as it may
be, I program in Delphi and Kylix the same way. (I never grew out
of being a TP programmer.)

trane
Hey, I meant no insult, and I have met a few very good and knowledgeable
VBers, but not too many <G>.
The reference to a more difficult learning curve from VB to Java would have
more to do with syntax and a thorough understanding of OOP, class loaders,
and dynamic binding, than Event Models.
Java uses listeners interfaces (aka Event Models) as well in J2SE. In J2EE,
they are moving toward a similar model with JSF (thankfully).
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

Trane Francks wrote:
Quote

Wal Street? Are you a bassist? :-)

trane
LOL!!
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

On 12/05/03 17:27 +0900, pNichols wrote:
Quote
The reference to a more difficult learning curve from VB to Java would have
more to do with syntax and a thorough understanding of OOP, class loaders,
and dynamic binding, than Event Models.
I agree, though the syntax isn't exactly difficult to pick up,
IMO. OK, maybe tough were one to only have VB experience, but
it's like learning spoken languages (the more you learn, the
easier new ones are to learn). For me, the biggest deal is just
wrapping my head around OOP. I can do it, but it's not comfy like
an old pair of sneakers.
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

mamcx wrote:
Quote
The basic Java language is standar... how develop with them is not. The
comparision with VB is good: Each version of VB meaning a change in
direction and a lot of times rewrite of aplications. Remember RDO, ADo,
ADO.NET, ODBC???? In contrast Delphi have a solid vision: TDataSet and
plug a database, for VB meaning change the GUI in each version. Now take
java and extent it to each big element of the equation...

Java has JDBC and has used JDBC since the inception of Database support
(1.1). So how does this relate to MS' change of standards? I guess you are
referring to JDO as a replacement for JDBC, but that would not be accurate.
It is an alternate framework that can be used, but it is not necessary.
Delphi has gone from BDE and SQLExpress to DataExpress, and now ADO.NET.
Alternately, you could use ODBC and ADO. So how is this different?
TClientDataSets are for locally cached data, not for connecting to
Databases. the TDatabase Object is the mechanisms used to connect to
Databases. In Java it is called a Connection class. In addition, you can
use a DataSource (as in VB), and also a PooledConnection (for which Delphi
has no equivalent by default).
Java has a simular mechanism, to the TClientDataSet, called CachedRowSets.
Borland JBuilder has had a TClientDataSet derivative, called TableDataSet
since JB 2. It was definitelty inspied by TClientDataset.
JBuilder also (like Delphi) has a DataSet which is the base of the DataSet
Objects (aka QueryDataset,TableDataSet, etc), just as Delphi has a DataSet
which is the parent of TQuery, TTable, and TClientDataSet. This too has
been around since JB 2.
All languages change and extend their capabilities over time. If they do not
they remain stagnant and die.
I think however, you are referring to the manner in which older VB code does
not upgrade well into the newer VB versions (aka VB 3 will not upgrade to
5, VB 5 will not update to VB 6). These problems do not exist in Java per
se, within the same family. For instance my Java 2 1.2 code will run fine
on my 1.4 jre. As long as you go forward, it will work. You cannot go
backwards, just as you cannot compile a Delphi 5 application in Delphi 2 or
3. If you attempt to recompile Java 1.2 code in 1.4, you may get
deprecation warnings on the compile. However, most of the time, these apps
will still compile, but the compiler will warn you to use the newer methods
(which are generally improvements over the previous code).
Quote
A think very important is that Java is strong in Server and server
development but waek in client development. Delphi is equal good at both
sides of the equation... In the end a development with Delphi cost most,
can be done more fast (like any C clone, Java requiere a skilled team
for do real good job). So if you friend wanna be a developer and not
asimply employeer, then Delphi is best

I would argue with that statement somewhat, saying that Java is weak in the
GUI area. I would think that two IDEs produced by Borland alone, would
convince you otherwise.
In addition to Borland's JBuilder (written in pure Java since version 3.5)
and Builder X, you have Oracle JDeveloper written in Java, DBVisualizer,
Poseidon UML modeler, many of the Oracle tools, IBM tools and DB/2 tools,
and several other commercial grade heavyweight GUI applications.
In the 1.x days of Java, I would have totally agreed with you about Java
GUIs, but not in the here and now. Java GUI is being revisited by many IT
shops today and is undergoing a real rebirth.
Please understand, I am not saying Delphi is not a very good a GUI
programming environment for Windows; it definitely is. Delphi GUI would be
the better option, if you were certain that your application was a Windows
only solution and always would be. Kylix 3 can create good Linux Desktop
apps as well, however Borland has done a very poor job in keeping Kylix up
to date to work with the later Linux distros, widget sets, and libs. If
Borland had fully committed to Linux, it would be a more viable option,
IMHO. The problems with Borland Kylix is that most Linux programmers do not
use Pascal. It was a great idea for Delphi programmers wanting to port
their code to Linux from Delphi (I think Delphi would have grown from this
move and I am sure Borland did as well). However, MS' move to NET, changes
the entire Windows programming paradigm.
BuilderX has the possibility to expand the XPlatform GUI world for Borland,
if they do not repeat the Kylix mistakes. I definitely see it going in the
right direction with a xPlatform C++ IDE that can support many different
compilers and widget sets.
I will have to totally disagree with you about Web based programming
however. Here Java wins, at least in my opinion, having used both tools.
This is especially true for sites that must be written to scale very well.
You have much more control in Java for Enterprise Network type development,
than you do for Delphi or Kylix.
This is understandable however, when you consider that is what Java 2 EE is
all about and look at the resources that make up the JCP, and the whose who
core of the Java platform world.
Have a good one!
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

Trane Francks wrote:
Quote
Like many others who have used VB extensively, I find it a
productive language. Sure, there are gotchas, but it works very
well for what I write (GUI special measurement device
interfaces). It just goes to show you that YMMV. Since I'm still
a TP programmer at heart, VB's event-driven procedural style was
a natural for me. I program in Delphi and Kylix the same way. My
Bad. ;^)

The problems I had with VB isn't what it did, but rather what it did not do.
Low Level API calls, you could almost forget it. VB had very poor thread
support, and you could not write any native Components with VB. VB always
had me going to another language to do hard core work and to integrate it
with VB required a trip to the COM interface.
VB did COM very well however, but COM is a heavy burden to place on an
application that really doesn't need it. Why do I want the extra overhead
of marshalling and unmarhsalling objects and interfaces, when the program I
am creating, does not need to share objects with other languages? These
were my biggest complaints with VB. That and the infamous Run Time
deployment problems.
If VB were all there was, we would have to live with it. I did for years.
However, Delphi did what VB did, and gave me all of the power I needed to
augment VB. That was the true reason I made the switch, years ago.
Please mote, I am not including VB.NET in the discussion. I have never used
it and therefore, unlikle some <G>, I am not qualified to comment on it.
Personally, I have problems with the NET framework in General (not as to
quality or the lack thereof necessarily, but rather to the necessity of
NET).
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

"pNichols" wrote in message
Quote
JQP wrote:

>
>People use Delphi because they like it and they believe it is the best
>available tool.
>
>People use Java because the pay is good. The honest ones will tell
>straight up that it is an overly complex mess that they don't really
care
>much for.
>
JQP,

Why don't you ever give empirical evidence to back up your audacious
statements? You are quick to criticize what you do not know and have never
used. That is not judgment according to knowledge, but rather the reverse.

Well, not real evidence, but good indication is
that at BorCon practically nobody showed up
at meet JBuilder team. It certainly is some kind
of indication of lack of enthusiasm in Java guys,
compared to Delphi.
As for main topic of thread, Java is better suited
to cross platform database development.
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

Hrvoje Brozovic wrote:
Quote
"pNichols" wrote in message
>JQP wrote:
>
>>
>>People use Delphi because they like it and they believe it is the best
>>available tool.
>>
>>People use Java because the pay is good. The honest ones will tell
>>straight up that it is an overly complex mess that they don't really
care
>>much for.
>>

>JQP,
>
>Why don't you ever give empirical evidence to back up your audacious
>statements? You are quick to criticize what you do not know and have
>never used. That is not judgment according to knowledge, but rather the
>reverse.
>

Well, not real evidence, but good indication is
that at BorCon practically nobody showed up
at meet JBuilder team. It certainly is some kind
of indication of lack of enthusiasm in Java guys,
compared to Delphi.

Not really Java is not not JBuilder, whereas Delphi is Delphi. <G>
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

Quote
>
>Well, not real evidence, but good indication is
>that at BorCon practically nobody showed up
>at meet JBuilder team. It certainly is some kind
>of indication of lack of enthusiasm in Java guys,
>compared to Delphi.
>
Not really Java is not not JBuilder, whereas Delphi is Delphi. <G>

Well, they Java guys at Borland are expected to be JBuilder users,
and those guys don't care as much about it, as Delphi users
care about Delphi product.
I see your point that JBuilder team is not the one
who make decisions about language, whereas Delphi
team is. But, still, this is some indication about
passion levels between Java and Delphi developers
in general.
On the other hand, Delphi developers are tied to
Borland, and Java developers are not in that extent.
But, anyway, I think that Delphi community is
one of most passionate and skilfull, but
there is decline for last few years.
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

Ok, this is a bit off-topic for a Kylix NG (even for non-tech), but see my
comments below..
[lack of properties]
Quote
I fail to see why this would prose a real problem for you. And your
assumption is also incorrect. You can set attributes by calling the
attribute name by doing any of the following:
Of course I'm fluent with standard OO-programming practics. The point is:
The semantics of a property and a field are (almost) _the same_. You can
take a field and change it to a property and that's it - you do not have to
change code that already was using the field.
You win flexibility (and don't have to type long method names).
Quote
(3) Create a public variable to set the values of a protected or private
attribute by value (see answer below).
This will only set the value of the public attribute when creating the
class, right?
Quote
In other words, what is the difference betweem

private:
FAnAttribute:Integer;

publishsed:
property Attribute: read FAnAttribute write FAnAttribute default=0;
You don't need a property to directly write to the private member. You need
properties for doing things in background when reading and/or writing to the
property;
property Attr: read FAnAttr write SETFAnAttr;
Quote
Accessor methods (gets and sets) are the normitative way of changing and
accessing attribute values. I think that most of this stems from the IIOP
nature of Java (as in RMI-IIOP) where this was the norm (in Corba).
AFAIK Java Beans set the standard for all the GetXX and SetXX accessor
methods.
However: Delphi, VB, C#, (Borland C++) all those languages have properties -
why not include them in Java? Properties are a nice way of hiding the
accessor methods and make the programmer believe he's dealing with a normal
field.
[enumerations,class constructor]
Quote

How so? I can see the enumerations(but you can define a class and use like
an enumeration)
As I said in my earlier post: Classes for just anything, even if it makes no
real sense and there are more elegant ways;
type
TPlayer = (red,green);
Makes three (ok, at least two) classes in Java or:
public static final int red = 0;
public static final int green = 1;
void DoSomethingWithPlayer(int APlayer){
switch(APlayer) {
case(...green): ....
case(...red): ....
// now - very important:
default: throw new InvalidPlayerException(APlayer); // THIS SHOULD BE
a compiler check at compiletime!
}
}
Quote
, but I fail to see your argument about constructors? Java
supports overloading and overidding comnstructors, just as Delphi does.
Java has no virtual constructors. So you have to use the factory method
pattern to work around that. The complete VCL relies on virtual constructors
and metaclasses in Delphi.
If I'm not mistaken, you can not call another constructor inside of a
constructor. (as in Delphi)
You _always_ have to override the constructor of your base class, if you
want your child class to have support for the same constructor - even if
your child class only calls the baseclass constructor and does nothing else.
(It's the same in C# - shitty C'ish OOP)
Delphi constructors simply rock.
Quote
I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder <G>. Actually, I like the
way
I can change the L&F of my applications to meet my specific needs by using
or creating my own Pluggable Look and Feel layouts and/or my own skins.
But
to each his own <G>.
I do not like applications that do not support the standard look and feel of
my platform. But Java has SWT for this, so you have the option to choose.
["if (a=true)"]
Quote
That would be bad coding practice period, but yes the de{*word*81}s will still
not catch this for you. That should be tracked and flagged by the
compilers
in an expression statement.

This is an easy mistake to make when switching from Delphi to Java and
back
again. Done it many times <G>. Not as easy for C/C++ developers, who are
used to different assigment and boolean expresssions <G>.
Agreed. BUT: Java was created with simplicity and correctness in mind. The
Java inventors should have thrown out this very easy source for errors.
(Does Java support result = a>b?true:false; ? Another candidate for
getting fired.)
Quote
>- I strongly dislike the concept of writing the implementation of a
>method
>right behind the declaration

Personally, I like this. Different strokes for different foilks, but I
hate
to have to declare every class method before I use it. If you like the
Delphi approach better, then define interfaces and implement them and you
will get the same effect.
In Delphi I do
class....
...
procededure MethodXY(...); Ctrl+Shift+C
..
end;
Now I have a nice "interface" and Delphi creates the implementation for me.
If I want to go to another method of the same class, I do a Ctrl+Shift+Up,
search the method in the declaration and do a Ctrl+Shift+Up.
In Java I have to a.) do a find over the source or b.) have a good IDE that
has support for something similar. (I don't like a source-tree for "mouse
action" ;-) )
If you only have Notepad.exe for source inspection at hand, Delphi syntax
lets you grasp the "interface" of a class at one glimpse.
Quote
(Delphi with the Ctrl+shift+up rocks IMO)

Do not need this in Java as per above..
Different opinion. I'm finding myself wading through a C#/Java file
searching for a method implementation I already would have found in Delphi
seconds ago.
["delegates"]
Quote
That is more of an earlier JBuilder thing, and has nothing to do with Java
itself. Of course I can point to Delphi IDE bugs as well as JBuilder ones
<G>. Personally, I think all of Borland's QC has diminished in the last
few
years. Look at Kylix, for instance.
Well.. :)
However, if you want to catch an event in Java, you have to implement the
whole interface - even if you are only interested on one method. In Delphi
you simply have a method and an assignment. Viol?that's it.
[virtual]
Quote
I would not doubt that you had these problems in JDK 1.1 to 1.2. I have
not
experienced anything like this in 1.3 to the current J2SDK 1.4.x.
Understand, I am not intimating that the JDKs are totally bug free, but
neither would I make that statement concerning Delphi nor Windows.
THIS was not only a "bug", but almost a showstopper! The number one OOP
language at that time did not support OO-polymorphism correctly?!
Sorry, but that's an absolute no-no. If the Java inventors would have stick
to VMTs, this bug would have never appeared. (No, they had to create
something "simpler" that not only did polymorphism but also overloading)
Quote
Delphi
(after version 3) has a {*word*193} habit of reassigning variables in a loop,
even though they have been initialized. This has drove me nuts at times.
There is no version of Delphi that calles the wrong virtual method.
Polymorphism is the biggest plus and advantage of OOP. If this does not
work, then I can not take that OO language seriously - sorry.
Quote
>- No real metaclasses, just a general Type

Not sure how you are defining this. Are you referring to the Smalltalk way
of defining MetaClasses or more of the way C++ implements metaclasses?
I mean the Delphi way:
MyMetaClass = class of AClass;
Quote
BTW, Introspection and Reflection are fully supported in Java.
Not as elegant as Delphi metaclasses, but - I agree - more powerful.
However, Delphi 4 .NET also gets full reflection (even more than found in
Java AFAIK)
Quote
>- In Java you create objects constantly - for just about anything.. (If
>you
>change a value, you should create a new object..)

I am not following you here. Yes, Java is fully OOP, with the exception of
five primtive types. It is the "if you change a value, you should create a
new object" that is throwing me here in this statement.
[...]
Sorry I snipped your (long) explanation here - but time constraints made it
impossible to comment on it.
In Java you need objects for everything (Enums,...). I was referring to
something I think I've heard: That you should create a new object (a copy of
the old one) and change your values there.. I guess that had something to do
with strings, but unfortunately I can not remember anything more detailed.
In any case: Java pushes the creation of objectes more that Delphi does IMO.
(In Java you simply need more objects - Delphi has records, enums, ... for
doing things where Java needs classes)
Quote
Yes Java GUI on older hardware is not a good idea. A 450 with 256 meg of
Ram
shoudl work well for most java applications you would write (using 1.3 or
1.4), but not for Mega Apps like JBuilder or Poseidon. I doubt however,
that many Java programmers are going to write apps of that magnitude.
However, you do realize that a 450 with 256 meg won't run XP either, do
you
not? <G>.
Don't have XP installed on that machine.. :-) (It's even a Problem if I run
Delphi plus some other apps at the same time on that PC)
Quote
Lower end PCs today are 1 gz or better (I do not know of any major PC
manufactruer that sells anything below a 1gz, unless it is a refurb). Java
will run very well on a Celeron 1 gz. as well as an Athlon, PIII or PIV,
or
Itanium or Opteron. If you must target older machines, with limited RAM, I
would agree, Java GUI is not a good idea or you should use SWT.
Of course the new (more powerful) CPUs and the better java runtime are
helping here. Even .NET would not have been possible without those new
powerful CPUs..
Quote
SWT can vastly improve GUI performance, no doubt, since it uses the native
OS widgets. Good news is, Eclipse will bundle a brand new RAD GUI builder
within the next few months that will do either Swing or SWT.
Yes, Eclipse is the way to go (unless you use IntelliJ's Idea - which is
[according to my sources] much better than JBuilder)
Quote
Net will also suffer from
these same maladiesm, BTW, as does Python and Perl.
Yes, unfortunately. However, MS will include .NET in it's OS distribution,
so you wont' need to download it directly..
Quote
However, if your users are connected to the internet, try Web Start, which
will auto install the correct JVM, if the machine does not already have it
installed.
No thanks :-)
Quote
Steep depends upon how you approach it. Coming from a C/C++ background,
once
you learn layout managers, it is trivial. Coming from Delphi. more
difficult, akin to C#. Coming from VB (at least most of the VBers I have
encountered), a major task <G>.
Of course the Java syntax is not difficult. The supplied framework is
responsible for that 'steep'. You have to learn a complete new programming
"model" - it's very different from that you used in Delphi. (One big
advantage of Delphi is the supplied source for the VCL - so if you did not
understand how things worked, you simply looked at the source.)
Quote
What are the limitations you are speaking of?
That was more of a joke that an actual argument and was ment to point you to
learn about design patterns befor looking at the java class library.
Quote
I really have a hard time understanding why a person can really like NET
and
dislike Java. They have much more in common than any two platforms I know
of or have ever seen. That would even include C and C++ (though the latter
are code compatible).
I feel that java has too many restrictions ('castrated' C++). C# does a
better job here (you even can do operator overloading etc.) Plus: I've
almost all the nice things I find in Delphi. Another reason is that C#
works. I had too many bad experiences with Java, although I only scratched
the survace.
Finally, if I do not like C#, then I can choose Delphi 4 NET, C++, VB,
Eiffel(?) ...
That's freedom to choose.
Quote
>Well - regarding your problem: All probably sums up to 'you have to use
>the right tool for the job'.

That statement I will always agree with <G>
:-)
Quote
Have a great day!
U2!
Thanks,
Willi
P.S.: Hope you don't mind all my grammar mistakes and/or mistakenly used
words....
P.P.S.: Didn't had the time to proof-read the posting.. :-(
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

Hrvoje Brozovic wrote:
Quote
Well, they Java guys at Borland are expected to be JBuilder users,
and those guys don't care as much about it, as Delphi users
care about Delphi product.
all that says about either product is that Delphi has, deservedly or
undeservedly, achieved cult status. Java/JBuilder so far hasn't. Doesn't speak at
all to the merits of either product/environment.
--
.. P.
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

"Phoenix" wrote in message
Quote
Hrvoje Brozovic wrote:
all that says about either product is that Delphi has, deservedly or
undeservedly, achieved cult status. Java/JBuilder so far hasn't. Doesn't
speak at
all to the merits of either product/environment.
Well, if you read previous posts carefully,
that is what we are talking about.
First guy said
"People use Delphi because they like it
and they believe it is the best available tool.
People use Java because the pay is good.
The honest ones will tell straight up that it is
an overly complex mess that they don't
really care much for."
Second guy then:
"Why don't you ever give empirical evidence
to back up your audacious statements? "
And that is where I jumped in with this BorCon story.
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

"pNichols" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Then how can you possibly do an honest evalaution of VB? All you can do is
regurgitate someone else's real or perceived bias.
And yet my "dis-honest" evaluation pretty much agreed with yours ... and all
the other VBer's who are now feeling upset and abandoned. Amazing isn't it.
Quote
So how do you know your evaluation is correct? This is the same as saying,
"I do not like fish, so and so told me it tasted bad, but I have never
tried it."
And yet the current status of Kylix would seem to indicate that my
evaluation was correct. Amazing isn't it.
Using Kylix doesn't offer much insight into the market forces at work
against it and Borland. There simply isn't enough time to get your hands
dirty "using" every new piece of technology. Judgment is needed to decide
which ones are worthy of "use".
Quote
You have posted in the past that Java is finished, Linux has no
marketshare,
and that XPlatform is not important.
Nice attempt to put words in my mouth.
I've never posted that Java is "finished" because I don't believe that it
is.
I've never posted that Linux has no marketshare. It definitely has achieved
a significant presence on the server side; aquired at the expense of Sun to
a great deal. The desktop side is a very different market ... and a very
different story.
I've never posted that XPlatform is not important. It is obviously very
important to
some people. So important that they are willing to invest and continuously
re-invest in Java. To many others (probably most others) it is not a major
concern that really drives their decision making.
 

Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??

Quote
All languages change and extend their capabilities over time. If they do not
they remain stagnant and die.
Yes, but in the case of VB and overal development tools of MS not. killed :)
I know that Java have a good underling architecture... i don't argue the
db connective because i use VB in comparision to Delphi, not Java...
Obvious the thing must "upgrade" but a good base class meaning that
change is not so problematic, the example of Delphi TDataset is one good
because meaning that change in data connectivity not meaning recode GUI,
Java have this and really i don't spect less... But rather i refering
"The basic Java language is standar... how develop with them is not" - i
considering underling framework like data connectivity the "basic
language" - but Java have a too huge pletora of thing that evolve,
change or die so quickly - at least when comparing to the overall
experience from a perspective of a Delphi Developer, that its, from
Delphi 3 to 7 the experience is basic the same - that is very very
challenging stay up to date or decide the "tech buzz" to use... from my
point of view and the kind of solution& clients i have, folow java
meaning a bigger cost that use Delphi, and anyway i can use the same
tool for any kind of development. So, in the end, for a small group or
solo developer use Delphi can give more advantage...