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Borland & Hara Kiri


2003-11-04 01:25:22 AM
kylix1
Anyone else get the feeling that they are hell bent on destroying whats left
of a great company ?
I do understand that change is painfull eg. dos->win16api ->win32 api etc
etc
But borlands "killer" app/technology has always been the vcl/clx
Having worked extensively with delphi/kylix/bcb & vc++ then nothing even
remotely "visual"
about vc++
sure you can always use qt which is really good by itself, but i always
thought borland
did a great job wrappering the qt toolkit for use with delphi
i do use gcc quite a bit as well as qt, however the rad framework is what
makes borlands
tools worthwhile on win32 & linux
right now there seems to be no clear roadmap, so why would anyone even
consider borland
tools anymore ? heck i dont even see a worthwhile competitor to vcl/clx at
the moment
(dont get me started on .net ...ill wait till it matures before gnashing my
teeth again)
how many of you guys are waiting to see what happens ?
& if you do decide to give up on borland alltogether what tools do you
propose to use
(linux & win32)
 
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

Jeff Undercash wrote:
Quote
We share your sentiments exactly... There doesn't appear to be any
roadmap at all. We are sitting here scratching our heads wondering
where to go and what to do. Microsoft C++? We don't really want to
give our business to Microsoft but what other choice is there?
Considering that MS C++ isn't even a choice on Linux? <g>
Quote
I don't understand Borland's business strategy at all.
One might be forgiven for thinking you don't understand MS's strategy
<g>
--
Dave Nottage (TeamB)
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

In borland.public.kylix.non-technical, Pete Gajria
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >...
Quote
Anyone else get the feeling that they are hell bent on destroying whats left
of a great company ?
No, I get the idea that a great company is moving on from a painful
experience brought on by the way the Linux community comported itself. Tough
for Linux enthusiasts, but not really a bad choice at all as far as everyone
rlse is concerned.
--
***Free Your Mind***
 

{smallsort}

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

In borland.public.kylix.non-technical, Pete Gajria
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >...
Quote

how many of you guys are waiting to see what happens ?
& if you do decide to give up on borland alltogether what tools do you
propose to use
(linux & win32)
Delphi for .NET and using Mono for coverage on Linux. That's my long term
plan for the next version of my newsreader. In retrospect I am
glad that I didn't try to build JSN on CLX. I seriously considered it though.
I have a lot of opinions on this and related topics, but I haven't the time
right now to elaborate. Maybe in a later BorCon report...
--
***Free Your Mind***
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

We share your sentiments exactly... There doesn't appear to be any roadmap
at all. We are sitting here scratching our heads wondering where to go and
what to do. Microsoft C++? We don't really want to give our business to
Microsoft but what other choice is there? What then would we use for Linux
apps? I don't understand Borland's business strategy at all. I'm not sure
they do either.
"Pete Gajria" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Anyone else get the feeling that they are hell bent on destroying whats
left
of a great company ?

I do understand that change is painfull eg. dos->win16api ->win32 api etc
etc
But borlands "killer" app/technology has always been the vcl/clx
Having worked extensively with delphi/kylix/bcb & vc++ then nothing even
remotely "visual"
about vc++
sure you can always use qt which is really good by itself, but i always
thought borland
did a great job wrappering the qt toolkit for use with delphi
i do use gcc quite a bit as well as qt, however the rad framework is what
makes borlands
tools worthwhile on win32 & linux

right now there seems to be no clear roadmap, so why would anyone even
consider borland
tools anymore ? heck i dont even see a worthwhile competitor to vcl/clx at
the moment
(dont get me started on .net ...ill wait till it matures before gnashing
my
teeth again)


how many of you guys are waiting to see what happens ?
& if you do decide to give up on borland alltogether what tools do you
propose to use
(linux & win32)








 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

In borland.public.kylix.non-technical, "Dave Nottage (TeamB)"
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
<3fa6b393$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >...
Quote
One might be forgiven for thinking you don't understand MS's strategy
<g>
Ouch, that must smart.
--
***Free Your Mind***
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

Quote
"Pete Gajria" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>Anyone else get the feeling that they are hell bent on destroying whats
left
>of a great company ?
>
>I do understand that change is painfull eg. dos->win16api ->win32 api
>etc etc
>But borlands "killer" app/technology has always been the vcl/clx Having
>worked extensively with delphi/kylix/bcb & vc++ then nothing even
Yes. Borland wants and HAS to make money like anyone else and they gotta
do what they gotta do. But this total lack of (indicating) direction is
definitely not going to pad their bottom line. A programmer has way too
much invested in time and study, not to mention books and classes, to take
a chance on using something that may hit a dead end. Especially a
{*word*137}r who can't just walk in and tell his boss that he needs lots of
money for some more classes.
Kylix works good for me and I have work-arounds for all the bugs that
affect me, but I am not going to continue to use something that will leave
me with deadend code, experience, and prospects.
There is very little chance of me changing platforms back to Windows,
although I loved Delphi, but I am definitely looking at other non-Borland
career moves. Mainly because I have to start yesterday and I have no idea
where Borland is going.
K
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

CJ>No, I get the idea that a great company is moving on from a painful
CJ>experience brought on by the way the Linux community comported
CJ>itself. Tough for Linux enthusiasts, but not really a bad choice at
CJ>all as far as everyone rlse is concerned.
IMHO, most Linux enthusiasts barely noticed Kylix at all.
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

Ender wrote:
Quote
>>Anyone else get the feeling that they are hell bent on destroying
>>whats left of a great company ?

CJ>No, I get the idea that a great company is moving on from a painful
CJ>experience brought on by the way the Linux community comported
CJ>itself. Tough for Linux enthusiasts, but not really a bad choice at
CJ>all as far as everyone rlse is concerned.

IMHO, most Linux enthusiasts barely noticed Kylix at all.


Some of us actually purchased it, and like it.
With the unofficial patches it runs well on my libranet 2.8.1 (debian
3.0) system.
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

CJ>>>No, I get the idea that a great company is moving on from a
CJ>>>painful experience brought on by the way the Linux community
CJ>>>comported itself. Tough for Linux enthusiasts, but not really a
CJ>>>bad choice at all as far as everyone rlse is concerned.
Quote
>IMHO, most Linux enthusiasts barely noticed Kylix at all.
km>Some of us actually purchased it, and like it.
km>With the unofficial patches it runs well on my libranet 2.8.1
km>(debian 3.0) system.
I'm say same thing. "Some" <>"many" or "most". In case of Kylix "some" <<
"most".
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

In borland.public.kylix.non-technical, Ender < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote
in message <1067918996.412672
@jet.ru>...
Quote

IMHO, most Linux enthusiasts barely noticed Kylix at all.
True, but those few who did notice tended to make sure nobody at Borland
would ever repeat the mistake of trying
to sell any tools to Linux developers.
--
***Free Your Mind***
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

Quote
>IMHO, most Linux enthusiasts barely noticed Kylix at all.
Captain Jake wrote:
True, but those few who did notice tended to make sure nobody at Borland
would ever repeat the mistake of trying to sell any tools to Linux
developers.
Usually trying to sell bad quality good to customer has no success, only
lose of reputation. No matter what is customer - penguinista or windozist.
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

In borland.public.kylix.non-technical, Ender < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote
in message
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >...
Quote
Usually trying to sell bad quality good to customer has no success, only
lose of reputation. No matter what is customer - penguinista or windozist.
Nonsense, Microsoft did this VERY successfully for years. Every 1.0 version
of every MS product was "bad quality". You see, when people are willing to
actually work with a company they eventually get better software. When people
are interested only in acting like a bunch of elitist idiots, they get
nothing after a while.
--
***Free Your Mind***
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

CJ>Nonsense, Microsoft did this VERY successfully for years. Every 1.0
CJ>version of every MS product was "bad quality".
I think every 1.0 version was "bad quality". Not MS only. But when 3.0
version has bad quality it is nonsense. Even Microsoft not ship new product
version without _any_ fixes, Borland successfully ship buggy not fixed
Kylix. Twice. I'm predict, even if they release Kylix 4 somewhere in 2005 it
will have same problems as K3. Most likely not all bugs entered in QC will
be fixed.
Ok. MS products is not perfect, but they often much better than products of
other companies and of course competitors. The more i diving into Linux
world, the more i'm trying to use products that may count as competitors of
M$'s, the more respect getting MS's developers in my eyes.
CJ>You see, when people are willing to actually work with a company they
CJ>eventually get better software. When people are interested only in
CJ>acting like a bunch of elitist idiots, they get nothing after a while.
Sorry, i'm not native english speaking man. Don't catch idea. Can you
express your thought in simplier way?
 

Re:Borland & Hara Kiri

In borland.public.kylix.non-technical, Ender < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote
in message <1067976043.721224
@jet.ru>...
Quote
CJ>You see, when people are willing to actually work with a company they
CJ>eventually get better software. When people are interested only in
CJ>acting like a bunch of elitist idiots, they get nothing after a while.

Sorry, i'm not native english speaking man. Don't catch idea. Can you
express your thought in simplier way?
Kylix was killed by the Linux community, not Borland. Period. (I can't
translate the part about idiots any
more directly without violating newsgroup rules. Sorry.)
--
***Free Your Mind***