Board index » kylix » Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]


2004-10-25 03:28:56 AM
kylix1
Quote
>This is pretty much the same questions as "will there be a Kylix 4",
>and there is no answer yet.

But then what Borlanders do in the FreeCLX project? Provide spiritual
guidance? When users have CLX code, they may fix everything themseves.
Of course everyone want some centralized way to submit and download
fixes, it is much better to fight with the bugs alone.
First of all: They care. That's a good sign, isn't it? Also they are the
ones who created Kylix in the first place, so they can help out in a lot
of areas.
Quote
>It's quite simple: The people who are known to be actively supporting
>Kylix right now have been contacted. Also if there are other people
>willing to invest their time into the project, I'm pretty sure they'll
>be invited in. We just don't need any "I demand this and that"-kind of
>guys (which honestly you sound a bit like ;) at this stage.

H-m-m-m... yes it may sound... JK said "vote for Kylix with your money"
and i'm voted, JK said "vote for Kylix with QC bugreports" and about 40
of 240 reports in QC belong to me. Now i want to get something in
return.
And you probably will, it's work in progress ;)
Quote
>Might be. The situation is this: Kylix wasn't the success Borland
>wanted it to be. There now is a group of motivated people who are
>helping a bit to get a second Chance for Kylix at Borland. This is
>the best you'll get. If that's not enough for you, quit Kylix.

From one hand i already quit. Before project was started. No any new
projects will be done with Kylix by me. Pure C++/Qt/GCC/OCL. And this
combination work far more productively than Kylix now.
For me it's the other way round. I've never used the Kylix IDE itself
that much really. Before CrossKylix, I already worked from the Windows
IDE, doing an automated compile over at a Linux box using SSH. I'm able
to work in a RAD way on Windows and get my results deployed on Linux.
It couldn't possibly get any more productive than this.
Quote
Additionally
Borland bring discredit on themselves in eyes of my bosses, so they
most likely never commit to buy anything from Borland.
Yes, we all have our "Why is Borland management acting so stupid"-
stories. Not much we could do about this.
Quote
From other hand
we still have few Kylix-based projects that need to be maintained and
i'm interested in some source of fixes. Additionally i want to give out
some of my fixes in DataCLX area. Of course if all project will be
useful for customers who paid money for Kylix, not only to those who
use open edition.
Important point here that needs clarification. While this probably hasn't
been officially announced, I'll tell it to you anyway:
Everything done in the project will be dual-licensed. Personally I would
not invest a single line of code for a GPL-only project, because it would
mean that I myself would not be allowed to use that code in my products
(which are closed source). This is also one of the various reasons
Borland is part of the project - to ensure all their customers will be
able to benefit from the works.
When Andreas told you that the project source will be based on the
Open Edition CLX source, he didn't mean to imply that this will be licensed
under GPL, as the original FreeCLX project was (which didn't die for
no reason..).
And if you are interested in helping out with DataCLX fixes, your patches
will be welcomed with open arms as soon as the project is done with its
initial decisionmaking and roadmap planning.
Simon
 
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Michael Swindell (Borland) wrote:
Quote
I just didn't want people to think that the community project team
wasn't doing anything... they definitely are - and Kylix/CLX
developers are going to benefit very much from their effort.
What I'd personally like to see is definitive installation instructions
on various linux flavours that are current. Or the most current
version Kylix can be installed on.
I have a desktop that's been lying around for over a year now and was
thinking it'd be a nice box to throw Kylix on and see how it goes.
Heck I might even be able to do a CLX port of my QC frontend.
The thing that stops me from installing a linux distribution and kylix
is all the messing around with installations.
--
Alpha 3.1 - Released October 13, 2004
JED, QC - Win32 Client for QualityCentral:
www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/
JED, QC Blog: jedqc.blogspot.com/
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
Actually, the past has shown
that Microsoft will make pretty sure Mono will never be able to catch up.

I don't see how they can do this.
If Mono gets into the state that is supports everything that the
then-current Delphi version needs with "standard" projects (e.g. by
working together with the Delphi team), the Delphi assemblies will run
on Mono unless the application programmer intentionally decides to use
platform dependent stuff that - of course - is _offered_ by Delphi as an
additional benefit for appropriate projects.
What could MS do about this (other than threatening or bribing Borland).
Quote
.net on Linux would become an option the day that all Linux distributions
by default ship and install a version of Mono that is more or less feature-
complete to the Windows .net Framework in its then current version.
Of course MS will always try to add incompatible features in their usual
way of drawing money from their faithful customers. But this can't harm
software that was developed either before doing this or with MONO
explicitly in mind.
-Michael
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
What I'd personally like to see is definitive installation instructions
on various linux flavours that are current. Or the most current
version Kylix can be installed on.

I have a desktop that's been lying around for over a year now and was
thinking it'd be a nice box to throw Kylix on and see how it goes.
Heck I might even be able to do a CLX port of my QC frontend.

The thing that stops me from installing a linux distribution and kylix
is all the messing around with installations.
You may use any Linux distribution listed as supported on the Kylix
homepage. This includes Suse 7.3 and Red hat 7.3. Using Andreas'
patch suite from
sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php
Suse 9.0 and Red Hat 9.0 will also work just fine.
You may download ISOs of Red Hat 9.0 at
www.linuxiso.org/distro.php
Alternatively, you may install any Linux distro you want, and just use
CrossKylix (crosskylix.untergrund.net) to compile to Linux inside
your Delphi IDE.
Simon
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
Hi,

i am exacly in the same situation but I think I will go with
Delphy/Kylix with CrosKylix. The time I save with this great Toolkit is
worth the risk of having to go Java if Kylix/Delphi once do not work
anymore...

Anyway i have the stong feeling that Delphi/Kylix will last or quite ome
years!

Do you think Java is after Kylix/Delphi? I would think Dot Net or Mono
might be the next choice. Have you played around with that yet?
I'll play with CrossKylix and see how it works. If I can get a simple echo
server built, installed and running on my new Linux box I'll be a happy
camper for now.
Darian
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Darian Miller wrote:
Quote
"Tom Emerson" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

>Greetings -- it's been a while since I've posted or checked, so forgive me
>if this seems a bit naive -- last I heard was that there were "no plans

for

>a new version in 2004". Since 2004 is "nearly over", I'm beginning to
>wonder "how about 2005?"


FWIW, lately I've been looking at Linux/Kylix as I have a product idea that
I want to implement with this combo...however, it's not looking too
encouraging - all you need to do is to look at Borland's own website, bring
up the Kylix page and click on 'Product News' here's the link:
www.borland.com/kylix/news/index.html This is a completely dead
product - nothing 'new' since 01-Nov-02. BOTTOM LINE: If a Kylix
prospective customer brings up that page, what are they to think? I tell
you what I think - and that's I'm starting to rethink the Linux/Kylix idea
that I had!

Darian




Hi,
i am exacly in the same situation but I think I will go with
Delphy/Kylix with CrosKylix. The time I save with this great Toolkit is
worth the risk of having to go Java if Kylix/Delphi once do not work
anymore...
Anyway i have the stong feeling that Delphi/Kylix will last or quite ome
years!
Micha
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Simon Kissel wrote:
Quote
Important point here that needs clarification. While this probably
hasn't been officially announced, I'll tell it to you anyway:

Everything done in the project will be dual-licensed. Personally I
would not invest a single line of code for a GPL-only project,
because it would mean that I myself would not be allowed to use that
code in my products (which are closed source). This is also one of
the various reasons Borland is part of the project - to ensure all
their customers will be able to benefit from the works.

When Andreas told you that the project source will be based on the
Open Edition CLX source, he didn't mean to imply that this will be
licensed under GPL, as the original FreeCLX project was (which didn't
die for no reason..).
I did not mean licensing GPLed vs Closed Source issues. I personally
don't care at all about them. I'm concerned about legal issues of
publishing enterprise level component sources. Just look on the
scenario - we publish patched enterprise level packages and someone who
does not bought Kylix download and use it on Open Edition. Again, i
personally don't care about them, but Borlanders may object.
As i know they had inserted some (pretty weak) protection in their
dbExpress drvers. But having sources of packages one may easy to fool
their protection.
Quote
And if you are interested in helping out with DataCLX fixes, your
patches will be welcomed with open arms as soon as the project is
done with its initial decisionmaking and roadmap planning.
Ok. We will wait.
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Darian Miller wrote:
Quote
>Hi,
>
>i am exacly in the same situation but I think I will go with
>Delphy/Kylix with CrosKylix. The time I save with this great Toolkit is
>worth the risk of having to go Java if Kylix/Delphi once do not work
>anymore...
>
>Anyway i have the stong feeling that Delphi/Kylix will last or quite ome
>years!
>


Do you think Java is after Kylix/Delphi? I would think Dot Net or Mono
might be the next choice. Have you played around with that yet?

Yes. Java ist sure much more crossplatform than .NET. IMO if there is an
alternative to Kylix/Delphi then I Think Java is it. I got the
impression with .NET that mono uses WIne on Linux for the graphical
stuff. K.O.! Besides that .NET gets patches after patches like we are
used to with Microsoft products.
Quote
I'll play with CrossKylix and see how it works. If I can get a simple echo
server built, installed and running on my new Linux box I'll be a happy
camper for now.

CrossKylix allowed me to write a daemon in minutes in my Delphi 7
environment. Simon Kissel diserves a medal for his work! I am sure you
will be happy with it! A Tip: Compile your libs with Kylix and copy the
dcu's to your CrossKylix installation.
Quote
Darian

Best regards
Micha
Quote



 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Micha Schumann schrieb:
Quote
I got the
impression with .NET that mono uses WIne on Linux for the graphical
stuff.
AFAIK this is not correct. See
www.mono-project.com/contributing/winforms.html
Willi
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Micha Schumann wrote:
.. impression with .NET that mono uses WIne on Linux for the graphical
Quote
stuff. K.O.! Besides that .NET gets patches after patches like we are
used to with Microsoft products.
I think it is only for the system.windows.forms, iow when using the
MS.Net GUI framework (all the Delphi.Net stuff)
You can however use GTK#, QT#, etc for the GUI for better cross platform
functionality. AFAIK you can only use MonoDevelop for that at the moment
and unfortunately there is not a forms designer released yet.
That is why I keep saying Delphi.Net should have been build on Mono with
GTK# rather than system.windows.forms. MS.Net GUI is a waste of time for
xplatform!
siegs.
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Quote
You can however use GTK#, QT#, etc for the GUI for better cross platform
functionality. AFAIK you can only use MonoDevelop for that at the moment
and unfortunately there is not a forms designer released yet.
'Stetic' seems to be the GTK# GUI designer name which is in development
- I have not found any definite web site about it though..
siegs
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Willibald Krenn wrote:
Quote
>I got the
>impression with .NET that mono uses WIne on Linux for the graphical
>stuff.

AFAIK this is not correct.
It was correct once, but they changed it.
--
Leonel
www.techtips.com.br
"Any fool can write code that a computer can understand. Good
programmers write code that humans can understand." - Martin Fowler
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Leonel schrieb:
Quote
It was correct once, but they changed it.
Yep, but that wasn't the question ;-)
Willi
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Micha Schumann schrieb:
Quote
Thanks for that info - I must admit that it ist some months ago that I
tried mono - I will try the latest version. I would be glad if I was
wrong with my opinions about .NET...
If you want to use Windows Forms, you'll have to wait for mono 1.2 which
should be released somewhen Q4/04. (But I guess it'll be somewhat late :-) )
See www.mono-project.com/about/mono-roadmap.html for the
mono 1.2 roadmap.
For a more general/technical overview of what's in the queue:
www.go-mono.com/summit-notes.html
HTH
Willi
 

Re:Re: Is there a future for Kylix? [from Borland, that is...]

Willibald Krenn wrote:
Quote
Micha Schumann schrieb:

>I got the impression with .NET that mono uses WIne on Linux for the
>graphical stuff.


AFAIK this is not correct. See
www.mono-project.com/contributing/winforms.html

Willi

Thanks for that info - I must admit that it ist some months ago that I
tried mono - I will try the latest version. I would be glad if I was
wrong with my opinions about .NET...
Micha