Board index » kylix » Re: Twisting in the wind?

Re: Twisting in the wind?


2004-02-24 08:36:26 AM
kylix1
John Roberts wrote:
Quote
I'll check it out, but I'm inherently suspicious about open-source projects
producing something of commercial quality. I did a paper about this
topic for one of my graduate CS classes.
It is nice read "Debunking the Open Source Religion" and yes
this paper indeed shows your deep suspicious toward open source.
But I really admire your honesty in all of this.. ;-)
There are many valuable studies of open source phenomenon including
those done by US government, in which there are presented objectively
facts one both sites of the argument and conclusions are left to the
reader. Recommendations if any are based on facts and designed to be
helpful. In result of this the Department of Defense and recently the
Pentagon are going Linux.. Perhaps in the near future we will have
the chance to read something like "Debunking the Open Source Religion?
Revised" and this time see you, put to a good use your talents.. ;-)
juliusz
--
InstallMade - Kylix-specific installer
www.superobject.com/installmade/
www.superobject.com/imoe/download.html
 
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

John Roberts wrote:
Quote
If Linux took off on the desktop, then I think there would
be a real demand for a RAD tool, but that isn't where Linux
is being used right now.

There is no definitive answer for this.. perhaps there is no marked
for this what Borland proposed or implemented, but I am pretty sure
that there is market for a RAD tool for Linux. Besides, the Linux
situation is changing rapidly and the use of Linux is increasing
constantly, and yes on a desktop too. One reasonable conclusion would
be that at some point there will be sufficient demand on RAD tool in
Linux, but I am not quiet sure that it will be Borland's product. It
is really amassing to see a relatively small company like TrollTech
which is able to attract attention of open source developers and
cooperate with them to produce a well known Qt development
environment, now capable of compiling for several different platforms,
as well utilize native 64 bit and .NET.
juliusz
--
InstallMade - Kylix-specific installer
www.superobject.com/installmade/
www.superobject.com/imoe/download.html
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

juliusz wrote:
Quote
JQP wrote:
>..
>coming to their senses and cutting their loses. After 3 years of real
>experience in this "market", management obviously has serious doubts as
>to whether there can ever be a "moneymaking future of Kylix".
>
You have to understand JQP. To him Kylix IS LINUX, but he is unwilling to
say that Delphi IS Windows.
In other words, JQP likes to selectively frame his own arguments, but never
likes to back them up by bringing them to their logical conclusion. :)
What I do not understand however, if the world exists, as he states (no one
uses Linux), why is he here in the first place?
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

John Roberts wrote:
Quote
I'll check it out, but I'm inherently suspicious about open-source projects
producing something of commercial quality. I did a paper about this
oh, you prefer IIS to Apache, do you ?
what's your IP address then ?
cheers,
Mat
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

"pnichols" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
You have to understand JQP. To him Kylix IS LINUX, but he is unwilling to
say that Delphi IS Windows.
IMO the success of Kylix (or the lack thereof) is connected with the success
of Linux on the desktop but I've never said that "Kylix IS LINUX" ----
whatever that means.
Quote
In other words, JQP likes to selectively frame his own arguments, but
never
likes to back them up by bringing them to their logical conclusion. :)
You would obviously prefer to frame my arguments for me.
Quote
What I do not understand however, if the world exists, as he states (no
one
uses Linux), why is he here in the first place?
ROTFLMA!!!!
For precisely the same reason that you spent years posting prolifically in
the Delphi forums without really using the product.
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

JQP wrote:
Quote
"pnichols" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>You have to understand JQP. To him Kylix IS LINUX, but he is unwilling to
>say that Delphi IS Windows.

IMO the success of Kylix (or the lack thereof) is connected with the
success of Linux on the desktop but I've never said that "Kylix IS LINUX"
---- whatever that means.

>In other words, JQP likes to selectively frame his own arguments, but
never
>likes to back them up by bringing them to their logical conclusion. :)

You would obviously prefer to frame my arguments for me.

>What I do not understand however, if the world exists, as he states (no
one
>uses Linux), why is he here in the first place?

ROTFLMA!!!!

For precisely the same reason that you spent years posting prolifically in
the Delphi forums without really using the product.
And you would be totally wrong!!! I used Delphi for years and own every
Enterprise version from 1 to 5, all registered with Borland... I also
bought every Kylix Pro version from 1 to 3.
We have written MANY Delphi based programs, and currently maintain several
Delphi based programs, including one we still have contractural rights to
that is used in schools, remedial education centers, and Universities
across America, which consist of approx. 500,000 lines of code. Contrast
this with you and your post.
You do not know Linux, know very little about it, but continually post as
you do. You also make negative comments about Java, Visual Basic, etc, and
have not used them either, by your own admissions.
If you look on many of the Delphi component sites, you will see I have even
written components in the Delphi world and given them away. So, you lose!!!
You can even check on some of the How to NGs concerning Delphi and find post
that I have made. I also headed up the training for Delphi users groups in
large areas and have taught Delphi and conducted Delphi training for
corporations. I have also been on coding standard committees for Delphi in
fortune 1000 corporations. Delphi is not our main language any longer and
has not been for some time, but for many years it was our MAIN programming
language. I have nothing against Delphi and never have. I do not make
disparaging comments about Delphi, however, I do not think its future is
too bright based upon its use, not its ability.
How could I write Java for Delphi programmers, if I did not use Delphi? DUH!
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

"pnichols" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
You do not know Linux, know very little about it, but continually post as
you do. You also make negative comments about Java, Visual Basic, etc, and
have not used them either, by your own admissions.
Well, you frequently try to speak for me, now you claim to know what I know.
How can you possibly do this?
For sure, there are lots of people with more detailed technical knowledge of
Linux, Java, VB or Kylix than myself. What you obviously fail to grasp is
the fact that unlike yourself, I actually seek to avoid wasting time on
flawed products.
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:36:18 -0500, "JQP" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
For sure, there are lots of people with more detailed technical knowledge of
Linux, Java, VB or Kylix than myself. What you obviously fail to grasp is
the fact that unlike yourself, I actually seek to avoid wasting time on
flawed products.
You spend in this group a lot of time. Does it mean that you consider
Kylix a very successful product?
Nico
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:36:26 -0500, juliusz
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
There are many valuable studies of open source phenomenon including
those done by US government,
Please, could you post URIs? Thanks.
Nico
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

"Nico Aragón" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
You spend in this group a lot of time. Does it mean that you consider
Kylix a very successful product?
I just scan the new postings and spend very little time here unless
something tweaks my interest. If you'll notice, my posts are usually fairly
brief and concise. I try to avoid long-winded diatribes which are usually a
waste of everyone's time.
I originally came here for education and research purposes, looking for a
different perspective or something that I had overlooked in judging the
potential of Kylix and/or Linux. Basically, I wanted to see if Linux/Kylix
fans knew something that I didn't, something that justified the time and
effort they were spending on Kylix and Linux. What I've heard thus far has
done nothing but reassure me as to the value of my own judgment.
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

Nico Aragón wrote:
Quote
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:36:18 -0500, "JQP" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:

>For sure, there are lots of people with more detailed technical knowledge
>of
>Linux, Java, VB or Kylix than myself. What you obviously fail to grasp is
>the fact that unlike yourself, I actually seek to avoid wasting time on
>flawed products.

You spend in this group a lot of time. Does it mean that you consider
Kylix a very successful product?

ROFLOL!!! Good one!!
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

JQP wrote:
Quote
"pnichols" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>You do not know Linux, know very little about it, but continually post
>as you do. You also make negative comments about Java, Visual Basic, etc,
>and have not used them either, by your own admissions.

Well, you frequently try to speak for me, now you claim to know what I
know. How can you possibly do this?

For sure, there are lots of people with more detailed technical knowledge
of
Linux, Java, VB or Kylix than myself. What you obviously fail to grasp is
the fact that unlike yourself, I actually seek to avoid wasting time on
flawed products.
There you go again, making a statement you cannot personally back up. What
are the flawed products of which you speak? Linux, I think many countries,
governments, educational instritutions, the U.S. DOD, US Human Resources,
Federal Express, Home Depot, Office Depot, Bell South, Oracle, IBM, etc.
would beg to differ with you. Should we take their word or yours, one who
has never used it.
Java? You do not even want to go down that road. Just take 75% (Borland's
own surveys) of companies using Java and tell them that it doesn't work, or
in your words, is a flawed technology. Again, should we take the word of
someone who, by their own admission, has never used it, or the words where
it is successfully fulfilling 75% of Enterprise requirements?
Or is it Visual Basic you refer to? Would you like to challenge those who
have used it to produce successful products and tell them that VB is a
flawed product (even though compared to Delphi, I agree it can be found
lacking, but I know this FROM EXPERIENCE, not because so and so said it).
Would you like to compare the number of products written with VB against
those written with Delphi?
Most of your opinions seem to be drafts from some MS' sponsored paper or
marketing release, or are the product of your own self imposed musings and
cogitations. I would love to see some independent analysis on your part
BECAUSE you are familiar with the technologies you are comparing.
Unfortunately, by your own admission, such is not the case.
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:21:47 -0500, "JQP" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
I just scan the new postings and spend very little time here unless
something tweaks my interest.
Very little time? Are you kidding?
There are dozens (hundreds?) of messages written by you in this group.
Quote
If you'll notice, my posts are usually fairly
brief and concise. I try to avoid long-winded diatribes which are usually a
waste of everyone's time.
Even if you spend only a few minutes for each message, the total time
should be measured in days not hours... providing you also read the
messages you answer to <g>
Seriously, just filter your outbox, measure yourself writting next
four of five messages and do the math.
Quote
I originally came here for education and research purposes, looking for a
different perspective or something that I had overlooked in judging the
potential of Kylix and/or Linux. Basically, I wanted to see if Linux/Kylix
fans knew something that I didn't, something that justified the time and
effort they were spending on Kylix and Linux. What I've heard thus far has
done nothing but reassure me as to the value of my own judgment.
I searched in groups.google.com for JQP and borland.public.kylix.* and
found six pages of threads, some of them very long. The first is from
16 Dec 2002.
You seem to have been here more than a year "reassuring". I have
nothing against people spending a lot of time in newsgroups. Some
persons find a lot of help, use their posts as self-publicity, or
simply they love their tools and have a lot of fun talking/writting
about them.
But I think that something might be wrong with a person that spends a
lot of time in a group just telling the rest of people what's wrong
with them.
Of course your time is yours. But I think you're fooling yourself.
"Research purposes"? "Time and effort *they* are spending"? At least
they're spending it in something positive.
Nico
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

"Nico Aragón" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
But I think that something might be wrong with a person that spends a
lot of time in a group just telling the rest of people what's wrong
with them.
There have been similar discussion in the Delphi forums.
Several individuals used those forums for years as their personal pulpit to
promote Java, Linux, Open Source anything but Delphi. Some of the same
individuals now frequent this forum. Jerking their chain here seems to do
little harm and helps keep them out of more useful areas. It's not like
anything worthwhile is actually happening here, the product is all but dead.
 

Re:Re: Twisting in the wind?

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:46:06 -0500, "JQP" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote
There have been similar discussion in the Delphi forums.

Several individuals used those forums for years as their personal pulpit to
promote Java, Linux, Open Source anything but Delphi.
Linux and Open Source are emerging markets. I don't see how Delphi and
them are incompatible. In fact it seems that this is what this group
is all about.
About Java, there is a Delphi for .NET. Time ago, there was a
prototype of Delphi for the Java platform that was demo'ed but then
never continued. I guess it wasn't very different from Delphi 8.
I don't find strange that customers that like some platform (Linux,
Java, .NET, Mac, x86-64, Solaris...) ask Borland to make a Delphi
version for it.
Quote
Some of the same
individuals now frequent this forum. Jerking their chain here seems to do
little harm and helps keep them out of more useful areas.
LOL!
Quote
It's not like
anything worthwhile is actually happening here, the product is all but dead.
I don't believe that Borland has given up on compilers.
Nico