Board index » kylix » Re: How increase Kylix sales

Re: How increase Kylix sales


2003-10-01 03:18:13 PM
kylix0
Tony Caduto wrote:
Quote
have you heard of the Lazurus Project?
It does just that, but seems to have little suport.
must be a reason for that.
--
.. Phoenix
 
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Quote
Since I was already aware of that, I meant a native executable solution <g>
CIL assemblies can be converted to native executable by performing the
last compiler step (code generation) on the target platform. In Windows
the CLI comes with an executable that does this, in Linux e.g. Mono can
be invoked with an option that saves the compiled-to-native code into a
disk file. So CIL is a native executable solution <g>
-Michael
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:19:54 -0400, Jeff Undercash wrote:
Quote
Get rid of CLX and the QT library.
Something I just came across:
free.cjb.hu/l/p/lptk/
johannes
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Phoenix wrote:
Quote
Tony Caduto wrote:

>have you heard of the Lazurus Project?
>It does just that, but seems to have little suport.

must be a reason for that.

Main reason for Kylix and Lazarus not having a strong following, is that
Unix programmers do not use Pascal.
Most Unix programming is C/C++ based, Perl based, or Java based.
Python is becoming popular, especially in PHP Web based programming, and TCL
is probably somewhere in 4th or 5th place. Visual TCL is pretty good at
building GUI apps, but I am not that familiar with the language. The Visual
TCL IDE looks pretty good, however.
I think Borland really missed the boat with Kylix early on. Kylix 1 was far
too buggy for creating any large project. Kylix 2 was better and Kylix 3 is
pretty good. However, Borland has not kept up with any of the new libs in
the Linux world, and that means dead end development.
Kylix C++, probably had a great chance, but it is horribly buggy. I am glad
Borland has decided to create a REAL XPlatform C++, and if they can come up
with a real RAD frontend (something like QT Designer that would fully
integrate with BuilderX), I can see it becoming a huge seller. Not on Linux
only but for any C++ shop doing Solaris, Windows, HP-UX, Linux, embedded,
etc.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Quote
Is this the cause ... or is it the effect of an operating environment that
is fragmented and in a state of continuous flux.

The reasons for that lack are also some people failing to understand the
platform they are trying to use.
Perhaps the "continous flux" of the environment that you hate is part of the
unique strengths of Linux. In Windows you only have 1 source of "innovation"
(ie: continous flux) and you can be sure that most of the time his reasons
for the changes are *not* the same as yours.
You can't have both:
- An static environment with a standarized look & feel (not your look &
feel, but one that others chooses for you).
- An innovative environment (ie: in continous flux).
Hey! What you see as a problem is a infinite source of opportunities. If you
are better you will win, if you have nothing new to offer you will probably
vanish. Don't blame the platform, it is much better that what you are
accustomed to. try to think just a little out of the box and perhaps you
will be able to see its potential. If you can't cope with the task...
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Dave Nottage (TeamB) wrote:
Quote
If you'd like to point me to Win32 equivalents that are supplied with
Linux
I don't know enough about Linux. I use SuSE 8.2 with the KDE desktop.
I've never used any of the other desktops (or whatever they're called).
But I know that things like KNode, YaST, KDevelop, etc. look cool, but
the applications I've tried writing with Kylix look clunky. Basic
things - like the fonts come out all jaggy.
Again, I don't know if the Treeview that comes with Kylix comes with
QT, or is a native part of Linux, etc. but I *do* know that it supports
multiple columns - so if it was replaced with a 'Windows-Alike'
treeview I'd loose that functionality.
--
Colin
e-mail : XXXX@XXXXX.COM
web: www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/delphi.htm
Posted with XanaNews 1.15.7.2
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

<K.M.>wrote in message news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
Quote
You can't have both:
- An static environment with a standarized look & feel (not your look &
feel, but one that others chooses for you).
- An innovative environment (ie: in continous flux).
Lack of standardization and compatibility is not innovative; *nix has had
this for decades.
But maybe you're right --- maybe I just don't understand; maybe Borland just
doesn't understand, maybe the marketplace just doesn't understand. Maybe
the absence of Linux on the desktop is all just a misunderstanding.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

<K.M.>wrote:
Quote
You can't have both:
- An static environment with a standarized look & feel (not your look &
feel, but one that others chooses for you).
In case of Linux absence of standartized look is deffinitely great
disadvantage.
Quote
- An innovative environment (ie: in continous flux).
Please tell me what innovations Linux include. NB!: Innovation is something
new, not used widely before.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

On 10/02/03 14:58 +0900, Ender wrote:
Quote
<K.M.>wrote:
>You can't have both:
>- An static environment with a standarized look & feel (not your look &
>feel, but one that others chooses for you).

In case of Linux absence of standartized look is deffinitely great
disadvantage.
It's to be expected, though. Since Linux and many -- if not most
-- if its applications are UNIX clones/ports, one shouldn't be
surprised to find that all the same UNIX interface hassles got
ported along with the rest of the code. What I don't understand
is why everybody whines about it. It is what it is. One of the
joys of Linux is being able to make it be whatever you want it to
be, just the same as it is for nearly any UNIX.
To be very clear, Linux is not XFree or any of its window
managers. Linux is a kernel. Sprinkle ANY supporting applications
around it that you care to, including an entirely new and unique
GUI windowing system, and it'll still be Linux. Finally,
understand that as soon as you have a GPL, people can and will do
whatever they like. That includes creating "new and improved" UI
implementations. As long as you're dealing with an open source or
open standard, you can expect a hodge-podge of solutions.
In the context of the thread, Kylix sales could have been
increased, IMO, by better addressing bugs and offering more
timely support for new distributions. Also, a "standard" version
falling at a price in between the Pro and release-limited GPL
free version could have gained a lot of converts. Here in Japan,
I had a choice of spending 68,000 yen (US$615) street price for
Kylix Pro or being locked into GPL-only stuff. That's a problem, IMO.
Where's the $100-200 "standard" version that is hip enough to
build 'net-savvy apps without fighting through an Indy
installation? Borland Japan, if not in the U.S., totally missed
the boat on pricing. VERY few people bought into Kylix here at
the prices being asked.
I bought Delphi 4 Standard because it was cheap enough. I bought
the Visual Basic 4 standard edition because it was cheap enough.
I have two TP7 licenses because they were cheap enough. I
downloaded all three free versions of Kylix, but didn't pay for
Pro/Ent because the commercial versions were NOT cheap enough.
Not where I live, at least.
trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks XXXX@XXXXX.COM Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
// mp3.com/trane_francks/
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

"Trane Francks" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
It's to be expected, though. Since Linux and many -- if not most
-- if its applications are UNIX clones/ports, one shouldn't be
surprised to find that all the same UNIX interface hassles got
ported along with the rest of the code. What I don't understand
is why everybody whines about it. It is what it is. One of the
joys of Linux is being able to make it be whatever you want it to
be, just the same as it is for nearly any UNIX.
Sounds like we agree.
Linux is just *nix with source code. It doesn't solve any of the old *nix
issues, it makes them worse. Instead of one new incompatible version, you
have dozens. Add Open Source methodology and you get a continuous stream of
inconsistency and incompatibility.
What I don't understand is why anyone would even think of targeting this
sort of environment with a commercial desktop product.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

"Ender" wrote:
Quote

In case of Linux absence of standartized look is deffinitely great
disadvantage.

No, it's a feature. You are so used to Windows with only one 'take it or
leave it' look that you think that's the way it has to be. Even Bill Gates
disagrees with you. That's why he created theme's and skins.
Peter
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

I see that Borland has found this true and that is why they are moving to
wxWindows for the CBuilderX product. Also they have done nothing to keep
CLX up to date with newer versions of the QT library. That and they have no
updates for K3 which is a crime for us who bought the product.
Chris Woodruff
"Jeff Undercash" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Get rid of CLX and the QT library. Replace with true port of VCL. Make
Kylix and Delphi compatible. We should make a QC issue for this and all
vote on it. I curious what others thoughts are on this. It seems until
the
above has been accomplished how can the marketability of Kylix be truly
assessed?

I tried to market a Kylix app. It was great and useful but who wants to
use
a program that has the bulky libqt dependency? That is what the bottom
line
is here.



 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

"Peter Agricola" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
No, it's a feature.
The user decides ... that is if you actually want users.
The "standard" user interface for *nix is the command line. This may be a
great feature for a network admin; it may not be for the average desktop
user. Any time the average desktop user is confronted with this "feature",
he assumes the computer has crashed and perhaps rightfully so from his
perspective.
It's all a matter of who you want using the product.
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Quote
Umm. You _need_ a widget set (or do you want to implement it all in xlib,
effectively creating a new one?!)
You keep QT, but instead of calling everything "CLX'ish"
on Kylix, you rename it to VCL'ish (unit names etc.).
And then you have:
VCL.NET
VCL.QT(Kylix)
VCL.Win32
best regards
Thomas
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 11-09-2003
 

Re:Re: How increase Kylix sales

Quote
>In case of Linux absence of standartized look is deffinitely great
>disadvantage.
Peter Agricola wrote:
No, it's a feature.
IMHO, bad feature.
Quote
You are so used to Windows with only one 'take it or
leave it' look that you think that's the way it has to be. Even Bill Gates
disagrees with you. That's why he created theme's and skins.
Themes and skins change only colors and visual apperance in some coordinated
way. They don't touch behavior of controls. If you have Windows, you have
for example taskbar that behave similarly under various themes. If you have
Linux you may have or not a taskbar. Your taskbar may behave differently
depending on current window manager KDE or GNOME or fvwm2 or other is used.
That's not good.