Board index » kylix » Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
Marco van de Voort
kylix Developer |
Marco van de Voort
kylix Developer |
Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?2005-08-21 06:21:53 PM kylix0 On 2005-08-20, Robby Tanner < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote: Quote>>>have .NET support. Why? Strategic. |
Michael Schnell
kylix Developer |
2005-08-21 06:36:21 PM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?QuoteIt's called Internal Rate of Return (IRR). A corporation establishes a to excluded, as this is lost anyway. With software the primary investment of course always is by far the greatest part of the internal cost. So any thought about IRR is useless, as it never would suggest to drop a product. -Michael |
Michael Schnell
kylix Developer |
2005-08-21 07:02:31 PM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?QuoteAlso, Linux programmers are typically of Kylix is the RAD. But the big con is that it's programs only run on one CPU architecture.This is not Linux-like at all. Thus Chrome or Lazarus are much more interesting Delphi-language products for the Linux community. (Even if Chrome is a windows based cross compiler, Yak :) .) -Michael {smallsort} |
Marco van de Voort
kylix Developer |
2005-08-21 11:00:26 PM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
On 2005-08-20, Larry Drews < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:
Quote>I'd be interested where I can find the reference for your view. Were QuoteI have been monitoring DICE for the last year. Delphi positions/contracts QuoteI have been employed steadily as a Delphi programmer for the last 10 years. |
Robby Tanner
kylix Developer |
2005-08-22 02:15:58 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
"Simon Kissel" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote>This is one thing I completely fail to understand. Why should you drop are you going to invest it in a high-risk fund with low expected ROI or a lower-risk one with a higher (and possibly established) rate of return? It can really be that simple. The difference being if you make an obviously poor choice for yourself and lose your nest egg, that's the extent of it. If you're a CEO and do the same with a bunch of other folk's nest eggs, you could face jail time. Although as we all know, sadly, it is hardly, if ever, the case. QuoteIf you know that there is something that doesn't need any more investment these decisions. It doesn't matter if the "revenue generated is larger than [the] permanent cost". As stated, even if that were the case, what matters is not showing "a" profit, but "the" profit. Furthermore (and I'm pulling this from memory), it seems to me that ongoing development and support is more expensive than capitol expenditures many times over. Could be wrong there, don't remember where I heard or read it, feel free to prove me wrong. Certainly in the public sector it is easier to find funding for capitol projects than for operations budgets. QuoteEverything is speculation. And I know my speculation is right. Because I'm a position for you. Alternatively, if you weren't interested, you could assist someone else in building up the same case so they could get on there. I find that claim still a little difficult to accept. QuoteAnd regarding accounting types: You assume that Borland has a proper specifically with Borland at all. I made no comment on the quality or "properness" of Borland's management, whatever you perceive that to be. QuoteSorry, but if Borland really had a management, accounting or a business and particularly in the IT sector, but they don't get to be the size they are by arbitrarily choosing directions from day-to-day over coffee. I was at a (VisualAge for) Java course at IBM where the instructor indicated that they have a seven -year business plan. It's dynamic, but it's there. Perhaps at one point the business plan didn't have a BCB and now it's been reintroduced. QuoteBorland management IS foolish. Heck, have you been living under a rock? for that "Given the complaints surrounding BCB...", "there is a lot of user dissatisfaction currently associated with BCB and the future is not really clear" and "Having lurked around this newsgroup for a while (admittedly only for a few months shy of a year or so), there are a few outstanding criticisms regarding support, updates, communication, compiler and linker updates, BOOST and STL (Ansi-???) compliance, the list goes on..". I started{*word*154} around here about the time of the BDS/BCB anouncement and got a pretty thorough history of the state of affairs in the community from that. Your dissatisfaction with the way you've been treated by the company is obvious in your extensive discussion of management All of that aside, it doesn't change some really basic business principles of which you might not be aware but are in all likelihood being employed anyway. THAT'S what I am discussing. I wasn't talking specifically about Borland, it's internal organization, logistics and methods of communication, protocols etc. I can only assume you've been in the board room and seen the voodoo dolls, ritual sacrifices, "Dumb Decision Dartboard" and Magic 8-balls used to finalize all agenda items. I care not one bit about that, since I am neither defending nor criticizing Borland's management or their decisions; YOUR assumption of which has led you somewhat off-topic. Whether I know the specifics of how Borland collects their stats, interprets its data, the document template they use to present it and the color of the duo-tangs the reports are passed around in is also irrelevant. Remove all references to Borland and substitute "a corporation" and you'll find most (if not all) of what I've stated is still consistent. I can also state with some certainty (not complete though, notice that?), that amidst all the above-mentioned arcane methods they MIGHT be employing, that somewhere in there you'll find some form of information upon which management is making their decisions (be they good, bad or otherwise). Irrespective of whether you agree or not with the decisions, they are being made with a series of data coming from analysis, planning, available budgets and trends to name a few variables. In spite of your tirade against Borland's management the validity of my initial statement stands, which I'll retierate, only this time I'll try and make it generic, hopefully to separate it from your disagreement with a specific instance of a corporation: In order to convince a company to invest money, you have to show clearly how that company will benefit from the investment. Establishing that sort of case is not easy, and even if you're right you still have to convince the people who control the purse strings. While your standpoint may be obvious to you, the onus still lies with you to convince those in power, because YOU want the change. Rob |
Robby Tanner
kylix Developer |
2005-08-22 02:36:24 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
"Michael Schnell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote>Also, Linux programmers are typically looking for C/C++ solutions because part people are hard to bump in to other areas once they are comfortable with something. Good point about the CPU architecture as well. Rob |
Robby Tanner
kylix Developer |
2005-08-22 02:41:25 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
"juliusz" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
QuoteRobby Tanner wrote: QuoteIn my opinion Borland should promptly either update the product and QuoteI don't think that "wait and see" current policy is an acceptable business QuoteA true business plan among other things should include not only usual I suppose it is possible that Kylix is such a relatively small portion of the revenue streams that it was canned without a very extensive analysis. Quoteperhaps for the moment is convenient for Borland, but in my opinion it is like it to. Rob |
Robby Tanner
kylix Developer |
2005-08-22 02:48:16 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
"Dave Nottage [TeamB]" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
message news:4308542d$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ... Quotejuliusz wrote: suggesting it was the users' responsibility to do Borland's admin and financial work anymore than anyone was obligated to come up with the JEDI PROJECT or sundry other projects (BOOST, for example). However, if a revitalization of Kylix is what is desired, it behooves the community to convince the people with the money (and ownership of the code) to do so; irrespective of the form of that entreaty; a plan, an open letter or petition from the community, a virtual suggestion box, what have you... |
Robby Tanner
kylix Developer |
2005-08-22 03:16:09 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
"Michael Schnell" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote>It's called Internal Rate of Return (IRR). A corporation establishes a QuoteBut the investment needed before the first piece is sold, needs to as inflation. Maybe IRR is the wrong term, but I'm quite sure at any rate that the capitol cost is somehow embedded in ROI evaulations. The two defintions I found are: "Often used in capital budgeting, it's the interest rate that makes net present value of all cash flow equal zero." "Essentially, this is the return that a company would earn if they expanded or invested in themselves, rather than investing that money abroad." Both seem to infer a consideration of capitol expenditures or investment.. QuoteWith software the primary investment of course always is by far the Quotecost. So any thought about IRR is useless, as it never would suggest to support costs can continue long after people have stopped purchasing licenses. If it cost $1,000,000 to develop something and revenues were $100/month while operations cost only $50/month, I'm pretty sure the project would not go ahead. Ignoring inflation, it would take 20,000 months to reach the break-even point, in spite of the fact that you're making 100% profit/month. However, in 20,000 months (or 1666.67 years), at even 1% inflation, to payback the intial $ 1,000,000 will cost about 16 trillion ($15,933,237,960,765.79) because $ 1,000,000 in 3672 will be worth the equivilant of 6 cents today. We might be saying the same thing but in different terms. It's been a while since I looked at accounting. Rob |
Larry Drews
kylix Developer |
2005-08-22 03:16:44 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
Marco van de Voort < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in
Quote
Delphi is enough of a success for me. How many jobs do you need? |
Roberto Icardi
kylix Developer |
2005-08-23 04:31:10 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?Quote
2) try to check timeframe between 1st and 3rd release of kylix |
Roberto Icardi
kylix Developer |
2005-08-23 04:46:37 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
Kylix is not for linux geeks, as it has a lot of things against the "linux
way". Kylix is for windows programmers willing to have a linux version of their products. Probably most important thing for those is the server-side part of the game: web/datasnap servers, database access etc, as the commercial side of linux is mostly server-side (look at who is selling on linux: Oracle with databases, IBM with websphere&Co, but noone on client side software) So borland could make a server-side-only renewed release of kylix, that could cost a lot less than a full renewed version (and where the money is), and then support the community work on bugfixing and renewing the client side. My 2(euro)cents "siegfriedn" <sniedinger@yahoodotcodotuk>ha scritto nel messaggio QuoteThis is my reply post from the delphi non technical group, but have not |
Michael Schnell
kylix Developer |
2005-08-23 04:49:58 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?QuoteGiven your suppositions, it would also never suggest NOT to develop a reduce the cost. Of course developing a new version of some existing software is a mix. It does need some development cost, but of course most of the development for the product has been done for the previous version. Thus the choice is to sell nothing (no return at all) or to invest in what is some 10% of the development and hope for continuing return for 100%. -Michael |
Jeff Wormsley
kylix Developer |
2005-08-23 05:03:21 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
Roberto Icardi wrote:
Quote(look at who is selling on Jeff. |
Roberto Icardi
kylix Developer |
2005-08-23 05:20:39 AM
Re:Re: How can Borland make from with Kylix?
"Jeff Wormsley" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >ha scritto nel messaggio
QuoteRoberto Icardi wrote: |